Should interracial marriages be allowed?

[dazzleman]

I voted yes, interracial marriages should be allowed.  It's not even worth discussing at this point.  I believe in interracial marriage and see nothing wrong with it whatsoever, as long as the parties involved are cognizant of and able to deal with the cultural differences that arise.

[dazzleman]

Generally I don't believe in it, but I don't think it should be banned. I mean, if some fat white girl wants to "marry" a thug, I don't really care.

Now, if my sister (not that she's this dumb) were to so much as go out on a date with a black guy, there would be a problem.

I believe in diversity and pluralism. Thus I support the survival of all ethnic groups, American whites and blacks and all. Some people are racist-- they want to eliminate the many ethnic groups in favor of a uniform race.

Indeed, some people are racist. One of those people is you.

I agree.  I've never been one for political correctness, or to issue phoney paeans to "diversity" and all that other garbage that the liberals try to shove down our throats, but this guy is way too much for me.

[dazzleman]

Generally I don't believe in it, but I don't think it should be banned. I mean, if some fat white girl wants to "marry" a thug, I don't really care.

Now, if my sister (not that she's this dumb) were to so much as go out on a date with a black guy, there would be a problem.

I believe in diversity and pluralism. Thus I support the survival of all ethnic groups, American whites and blacks and all. Some people are racist-- they want to eliminate the many ethnic groups in favor of a uniform race.

I appreciate your honesty.  These are hard issues, and definitely cross party lines.  Say your sister brings home a n.  Or, just for fun, let's say she brings home a woman!  okay, wrong thread.  Let's go back to the n.  What do you do?  I'm a uniform racist myself, but I recognize that not all are.  In fact, I've never been to china, but I'd imagine that's a spot where I could find in excess of a billion people who are hard-core racists.  It's well known that something like 98% of the chinese people are of pure Han descent.  And goddamned well proud of it.  and that measley 2% get sh**t on every day of their miserable lives.  Not just informally, but by officially-sanctioned government action.  Most of those poor bastards wouldn't even think of marrying a Han woman.  Or man.  But this ain't some third world communist country.  And we can talk openly.  Of course, you realize that and you do talk openly.  I admire that.  Lots of folks here (mostly democrats, not surprisingly, as they're closer to communism the we are) will demonize you for being so open.  I won't.  I welcome it.  So I ask.  In all seriousness.  You sister brings home a n, and what do you say to your sister (whom you love, presumably) when she meets a nice man who shares her values but who isn't white.  You gonna go and lynch the bastard?  I'm guessing you're not a murderer.  So what do you do?  Beat the bitch?  yeah, that solves the problem for about five seconds.  What do you do?  Pay some white guy money to date her?  that solves the problem for about five days.  What do you do?

See, the reason I ask is because the first time I ever introduced my sister to a black woman that I was doing she freaked.  I mean totally freaked out.  WTF??!  She thought I was nuts.  Funny, she was the one who ended up marrying that large handsome man with the groovy Alabama tube steak.  Not me.  Actually, he's a nice guy.  Of course, now they're divorced.  But I'm genuinely curious.  You don't have to explain your motives to me or anyone else.  But I'd genuinely like to know how you think you should appropriately handle such a situation.

One thing I hate is that when a person is dating somebody unsuitable, who happens to be of a different race, people seem to focus on the race rather than the real issue.

I am fully aware of the trend of trashy white girls dating black thugs as a way to make a negative statement, piss off their parents, etc.

If a person is a thug, that is the problem, not his skin color.  I've seen so many cases in which a girl is dating an unemployed loser with a criminal record and kids from other relationships that he doesn't act as a father to, and he happens to be black, and all the relatives focus on is that he is black.  Would a person like that be OK if he were white?  I would hope not.

Then sometimes, there are perfectly good people who are rejected because of their race.  That is even worse.

I do think it's good for people to be honest about this, because honesty is the first step toward maybe solving this ridiculous problem.  But we need to move beyond this obsession with racial classifications.

[dazzleman]

By the way, I should add that I don't believe in "race."  There's only one race: the human race.  Anything else is simply insignificant differences.

Then I don't believe in different breeds of dog. They are all identical except for some superficial differences, right? Pitbulls and collies, what's the difference...

Considering the vast differences in breeds of dogs relative to the differences in the different races of humans, I think that's not a very good comparison.

You're right. The human races are actually much, much more different from each other than any breeds of dog are. The gap between a white and black person is genetically huge... it sounds small when you say ".01%," but when you consider how few genes are actually manifested, and how few determine key characteristics, the difference is very large for members of the same overall species.

Only the relative youth of the homo sapiens species prevents reproductive isolation.

I really don't think you're right, but you are entitled to your opinion like anybody else.

[dazzleman]

LOL Ebowed, a "conservative" organization, hilarious. Please keep it up.

dazzle: do you want to discuss the science? I am more than prepared to do so. You might "think" one thing, but like Ebowed, and like a lot of people, you believe it because you've been told that by the media.

Anyone that knows basic genetics knows there is such a thing as race, period. And anyone so ignorant they have to cite some weirdo "Christian" website has no business making declarative scientific statements.

I'm not sure what your discussion point would be.  I am well aware of physical differences between the races.  I am also well aware of ongoing cultural differences that continue to this day, and I have not been a fan of the liberal view or the media view of racial issues.

But I still think that the similarities of the human races far outweigh the differences.  And I see nothing wrong with people of different races procreating with each other.

[dazzleman]

I think the cultural differences between the races are far more significant than the biological differences.

The biggest difference is in the way we think.  In our society, blacks and whites think completely differently.  That is a gap far bigger than any biological difference.

[dazzleman]

AuH2O, I admire you for standing up for your opinions.

I am a conservative, not a politically correct liberal.  So please keep that in mind.

There are obvious physical differences between the races, and even ethnic groups within races.  Did you ever wonder why so many tailors are Jewish?  Even if you look at occupations within the different subgroups of the white race, you will not find an even distribution in each field, nor will you find an even distribution in terms of wealth, crime rates, etc.

I would not deny that blacks have a much higher rate of social dysfunction than whites.  This means broken families, crime, etc.  I simply don't believe it's biological, but cultural.  I don't excuse it, and I think it's largely up to blacks to correct the problems.  But I don't think they're biological.

Men are more physically violent than women, and that is biological.  But the gap is not as great as perceived.  It is simply that men are more SUCCESSFUL than women at physical violence because we are stronger.  On the other hand, women are more emotionally violent than men.  Both sexes are equally good and evil, in my opinion, but the manifestations of good and evil come out differently due to biological differences.

I find biological differences far more convincing than physical differences due to race, which is one reason why I reject the linkage gay rights groups between racial intermarriage and gay marriage.  The two are not the same in my opinion.

I would suggest to you, in a friendly way, that you rethink your opinions a little bit, because I really do believe that you are off base.

[dazzleman]

Why? It's entirely irrelevant. You don't shun people because some group they happen to by birth belong to commits more crimes than another group.

Sure you do.  Why do you think most whites choose to live in neighborhoods that exclude blacks?  It's for reasons of practical self-interest.  Decent people would never shun an individual person for the reasons you suggested, but at the group level, you better believe it happens.  Our whole society is structured around it.

[dazzleman]

What does not wanting to live in poor, urban hellholes have to do with being upset because your sister dates some black guy?

Because you don't want your sister to end up living in one, which you fear she might if she marries a black guy.

Look, I'm not defending this type of thing, just trying to explain it.  I approve of interracial marriage and dating, as long as the individuals are suitable to each other.  Race should not be an issue per se, but couples do have to deal with cultural differences that could affect their relationship.

[dazzleman]

I am a conservative, not a politically correct liberal.  So please keep that in mind.

I liked all of your post, dazzleman, except this part.  Certainly not all Democrats, or liberals, are "politically correct."  I haven't mentioned this in any threads on this board, but I happen to be a huge opponent of Internet filtering in schools and libraries, and censorship on television, which as far as I know isn't politically correct.  Throwing around terms like "politically correct," when not applicable, is dangerous in these sorts of debates.

By politically correct, I meant a mindless denial of certain well-known facts.  Example:  You have just as much of a chance of being mugged by a group of white kids as you do by a group of black kids.  Or:  There's violence in all schools; the busing of large numbers of blacks from ghetto neighborhoods will not necessarily lead to increased violence.  WRONG!  This is the type of politically correct garbage I see being thrown around out in the world.

There are many facets to political correctness.  I think we're better just facing certain facts, distasteful though they may be, and working with them, rather than denying them.

[dazzleman]

Why? It's entirely irrelevant. You don't shun people because some group they happen to by birth belong to commits more crimes than another group.

Sure you do.  Why do you think most whites choose to live in neighborhoods that exclude blacks?  It's for reasons of practical self-interest.  Decent people would never shun an individual person for the reasons you suggested, but at the group level, you better believe it happens.  Our whole society is structured around it.

This is certainly true.  Statistically, blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes; the issue is whether or not this is because they're black.  I'll freely admit that when I see a black person, my immediate reaction is one of suspicion.  I'm not proud of it, but it's just a fact, and it's one that I might as well admit, given that there's exactly zero I can do about it.  It doesn't last long, and I can easily get over it, but no matter what I do, it's always there.  It's a natural human reaction that comes with the interest of self-preservation that makes humans wary of those who they subconsciously perceive as being more dangerous than others.  It's only when you do this after it becomes apparent that the person is not dangerous that it turns into destructive racism.

That said, however, we're not talking about statistics; we're talking about what's inherent in having a certain skin color.

Gabu, I was talking on a macro level, and pointing out that whites largely do shun blacks as a group because of the social problems that blacks have, and the negative effects of these problems.  It is largely a statistical thing, and it can filter down to the personal level, depending upon the type of person involved.

Look, I know plenty of black people that I like very much, and respect very much.  I consider them equal to me, in a non-condescending way.  I would date and marry a black woman.  But I would never live in a predominantly black neighborhood, or send my kids (if I had any) to a predominantly black school.  I was pointing out that people can operate on two different tracks when it comes to race.

[dazzleman]

I am a conservative, not a politically correct liberal.  So please keep that in mind.

I liked all of your post, dazzleman, except this part.  Certainly not all Democrats, or liberals, are "politically correct."  I haven't mentioned this in any threads on this board, but I happen to be a huge opponent of Internet filtering in schools and libraries, and censorship on television, which as far as I know isn't politically correct.  Throwing around terms like "politically correct," when not applicable, is dangerous in these sorts of debates.

By politically correct, I meant a mindless denial of certain well-known facts.  Example:  You have just as much of a chance of being mugged by a group of white kids as you do by a group of black kids.  Or:  There's violence in all schools; the busing of large numbers of blacks from ghetto neighborhoods will not necessarily lead to increased violence.  WRONG!  This is the type of politically correct garbage I see being thrown around out in the world.

There are many facets to political correctness.  I think we're better just facing certain facts, distasteful though they may be, and working with them, rather than denying them.

A lot of liberals are going to call you out because you go too far dude. All you do is bash liberals for being politically correct...you're just a huge hypocrite. Most liberals aren't politically correct at all...as a matter of fact I'd go so far as to say the average conservative is much more politically correct then the average liberal.

It depends on the type of political correctness.  What is commonly referred to as political correctness is a left-wing creation.  Sorry, but those are the facts.  Yes, I bash liberals for it, because they deserve it.  If you don't exhibit political correctness, then it doesn't apply to you.  I happen to think you are anti-white and anti-southern, based on your prior posts.  You should not be throwing stones when you live in a glass house when it comes to calling me a hypocrite, as you have exhibited plenty of bigotry from what I have seen.  You just exhibit a type of bigotry that is acceptable to those of your political leanings.  

I just tell the truth as I see it, and sometimes paint with a broad brush.  But that doesn't make me a hypocrite.

You simply have a different definition of political correctness than I do, obviously.  Your definition probably has something to do with some of the hypocrisies inherent in extreme Christian fundamentalism, or something like that.

[dazzleman]

Neighborhoods of one race are never fun. Not variety and no culture.

Personally, I like living in mixed neighborhoods.

Mixed is fine.  But most whites, whether they will admit it or not, have a certain "tipping point" when it comes to the blackness of a neighborhood.

I read an interesting study on this once, that demonstrates largely why integration has failed so badly.  The common white view of integration is a black percentage in a neighborhood similar to the general black population, i.e., 10-15%.  This is something most whites can be comfortable with, and they will consider such a neighborhood mixed or integrated.

But the black definition of integration is 50% black and 50% white.  So blacks are uncomfortable living in a neighborhood in which they only comprise 10-15% of the population, while few whites, even liberal ones, can tolerate living in a neighborhood that is 50% black.

And BTW, I never said a neighborhood had to be all white.  I said I would not live in a neighborhood that was "predominantly black."  There's a big difference.

[dazzleman]

Gabu, I was talking on a macro level, and pointing out that whites largely do shun blacks as a group because of the social problems that blacks have, and the negative effects of these problems.  It is largely a statistical thing, and it can filter down to the personal level, depending upon the type of person involved.

I know.  I was talking about your point in relation to what AuH2O is talking about, not attempting to discount it or anything.  I would imagine that the micro and the macro levels pretty much stem from the same roots, though.

Yes and no.  There are some out-and-out racists who simply think blacks are genetically inferior.  I don't believe that at all.  They would believe that regardless of the statistics at the macro level.

So I think in some cases the macro and micro reactions stem from the same source, but in other more extreme cases, they do not.

[dazzleman]

I'm anti-white? LOL!! I'm white.

You're so extremely anti-politically correct that it's just as bad as those who actually are politically correct.

I'm certainly not fond of any kind of serious biggotry, but I don't have a problem with joking around about people, especially whites -- who have been part of a privaleged class in American society.

It's perfectly possible to be white and anti-white.  You hold whites to a higher standard of behavior than other people, and view yourself as above other whites, or at least certain ones.  All races and groups have examples of people like this.

I think political correctness is bad, period.  When something is evil, being against it cannot really be bad.  You are falling for the old liberal moral equivalence ploy, which is a logic error.

[dazzleman]

Neighborhoods of one race are never fun. Not variety and no culture.

Personally, I like living in mixed neighborhoods.

Mixed is fine.  But most whites, whether they will admit it or not, have a certain "tipping point" when it comes to the blackness of a neighborhood.

I read an interesting study on this once, that demonstrates largely why integration has failed so badly.  The common white view of integration is a black percentage in a neighborhood similar to the general black population, i.e., 10-15%.  This is something most whites can be comfortable with, and they will consider such a neighborhood mixed or integrated.

But the black definition of integration is 50% black and 50% white.  So blacks are uncomfortable living in a neighborhood in which they only comprise 10-15% of the population, while few whites, even liberal ones, can tolerate living in a neighborhood that is 50% black.

And BTW, I never said a neighborhood had to be all white.  I said I would not live in a neighborhood that was "predominantly black."  There's a big difference.

What do you consider "predominantly black"? Like I said, I wouldn't enjoy living in an all-black neighborhood just as I wouldn't enjoy living in an all-white neighborhood.

It could mean a lot of things.  It depends more on culture than skin color.

Even 10% could be too much if the blacks in a neighborhood are ghetto types on public assistance.  And the same thing goes for whites, if they're that type of person.  But if the share my values and lifestyle, I really don't care what percentage they are.  I just know that statistically, it is unlikely that there would be a neighborhood that was, say, 60-70% black that wouldn't include an unacceptably high ghetto-type component.  There are no hard numbers.

[dazzleman]

What does not wanting to live in poor, urban hellholes have to do with being upset because your sister dates some black guy?

Because you don't want your sister to end up living in one, which you fear she might if she marries a black guy.

Look, I'm not defending this type of thing, just trying to explain it.  I approve of interracial marriage and dating, as long as the individuals are suitable to each other.  Race should not be an issue per se, but couples do have to deal with cultural differences that could affect their relationship.

then you don't want your sister to marry me?

you better believe I don't

[dazzleman]

It depends on the type of political correctness.  What is commonly referred to as political correctness is a left-wing creation.  Sorry, but those are the facts.  Yes, I bash liberals for it, because they deserve it.  If you don't exhibit political correctness, then it doesn't apply to you.  I happen to think you are anti-white and anti-southern, based on your prior posts.  You should not be throwing stones when you live in a glass house when it comes to calling me a hypocrite, as you have exhibited plenty of bigotry from what I have seen.  You just exhibit a type of bigotry that is acceptable to those of your political leanings. 

I just tell the truth as I see it, and sometimes paint with a broad brush.  But that doesn't make me a hypocrite.

You simply have a different definition of political correctness than I do, obviously.  Your definition probably has something to do with some of the hypocrisies inherent in extreme Christian fundamentalism, or something like that.

Hey, do you think I'm anti straight white male just because because I'm a liberal?

That would be pretty funny, since I'm a straight white male.

I really wouldn't know.  I just know that you think Bush lost Ohio (margin 118,000 votes) but Kerry won Wisconsin (margin 10,000 votes).  That and that you're far left, that's all I know about you.

All liberals aren't politically correct, but almost all who are politically correct are liberals.  And many who are politically correct either don't know it or would never admit it.

The fact that all you liberals are denying being politically correct proves what a liability it has become.  That is a victory in itself.

And in case you didn't notice, jfern, we're on the same side of this issue.  I believe in intermarriage, and don't believe race should be a factor.  I believe racial differences are largely superficial and cultural.  But I am not politically correct enough to deny that there are serious problems in black American culture that affect most people's (even some black people's) perception of blacks as a group.  Those who are politically correct deny these cultural issues.  I have seen it.  They became enraged and tag anybody who brings up these issues as racist.  I don't know whether you do or not; I haven't read your posts carefully enough.  But you can be sure that most of the people doing that aren't on the conservative side of the political spectrum.

Some conservatives have begun to play this game recently, and it's a little degrading.  The labeling of all opposition to Condi Rice's nomination as "racist" is an example.  But let's not forget who started this little game.  Liberals did, and if it ends up hurting the liberal cause, all the better.

[dazzleman]

Not necessarilly, an evangelical girl was whining about how Biology class was "anti-Christian" in high school and force us to be politically correct toward her hatred of education.

Well, it sounds as if the chickens are coming home to roost.  Liberals started it, and if they get a dose of their own nasty medicine and don't like it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

[dazzleman]

Not necessarilly, an evangelical girl was whining about how Biology class was "anti-Christian" in high school and force us to be politically correct toward her hatred of education.

Well, it sounds as if the chickens are coming home to roost.  Liberals started it, and if they get a dose of their own nasty medicine and don't like it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it.

Actually conservatives did, where was the drive to force church-goers to be politically correct toward those who believe in science?

I don't deny there is some political correctness on the conservative side.  But it is liberals who went on the offensive with political correctness, trying to attack and suppress mainstream views, whether you disagree with those views or not.  Conservatives have not attacked mainstream views, but defended them, rather weakly, from liberal attack.