MA: Repeal of the Mideast Abortion Statue II (Vetoed)

[tmthforu94]

With this exact text, I will certainly veto this bill.

[tmthforu94]

Someone (Afleitch, I believe) actually sued the region on it, and former Superior Court Judge Franzl ruled in favor of the region.

[tmthforu94]

I'll propose the following amendment:

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[tmthforu94]

I also cannot support Governor Tmthforu94's amendment, as it does not do enough to satisfy the reasoning behind the original bill. 

When do you believe life begins?

Personally I believe that life begins at birth.

So should we have any restrictions on abortion?

No, I don't think we need any restrictions, but if there absolutely needs to be some restrictions, the new Federal law is sufficient.

So you believe a woman at full-term should be able to walk in and have an abortion. Talk about extreme...

[tmthforu94]

I also cannot support Governor Tmthforu94's amendment, as it does not do enough to satisfy the reasoning behind the original bill. 

When do you believe life begins?

Personally I believe that life begins at birth.

So should we have any restrictions on abortion?

No, I don't think we need any restrictions, but if there absolutely needs to be some restrictions, the new Federal law is sufficient.

So you believe a woman at full-term should be able to walk in and have an abortion. Talk about extreme...

I don't feel like it's my place to make that decision for the mother, that is her choice. Also the new federal law would prevent that from happening.

Wow. If the fetus could survive outside the womb, which it almost certainly could at full-term, I find killing that fetus to be extremely inhumane, and it concerns me that we have legislators advocating for the right to do that.

The federal law is still in question, due to the argument of whether or not the President's veto is valid.

[tmthforu94]

If the federal law is still in question, I'd be willing to copy the language of that bill into an amended version of our statue so we would have those same restrictions regardless of the legality of the federal law.

Then would we repeal the Mideast Abortion Statue, which is essentially the same as the law proposed?

[tmthforu94]

If the federal law is still in question, I'd be willing to copy the language of that bill into an amended version of our statue so we would have those same restrictions regardless of the legality of the federal law.

Then would we repeal the Mideast Abortion Statue, which is essentially the same as the law proposed?

The section of the Mideast Abortion Statute dealing with penalties is still a problem, so yes, I'd hope so.

Well, I believe an amendment would be required - Inks may have to step in here, but if we repealed a law repealing a law, wouldn't it put the original law back in place? The doctor's punishments are actually stiffer from the federal government than we have in the Mideast - here you can obtain your license after only five years.

[tmthforu94]

Well, personally, I'd rather seek a compromise version to put forth to the voters, as that would be likely to pass and neither side would be extremely upset from it.

[tmthforu94]

I withdraw my other amendment, and introduce this one:

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[tmthforu94]

Another complication of voting on multiple proposals at once - what if The People pass more than one version?

[tmthforu94]

If 25% of Mideast citizens sign onto it, an initiative can also be voted on. Conceivably, I could personally introduce the version that fails the Assembly (Which don't expect me to do unless I'm actually supportive of it, which is unlikely to happen), then the other three versions could all be proposed. Whichever ones get to 25% will face a public vote.

[tmthforu94]

Until there is a definite ruling on it, I don't think there really is a federal law on abortion, which is why I'm extremely opposed to Gass's bill, which would allow for full-term abortions, something I find to be horrific. My amendment would change current Mideast law by allowing abortions in the first trimester as well easing the punishments for doctors.

[tmthforu94]

In that case my order of preference is Gass's bill>Mr. X's bill>>>>Tmth's bill>>>>>>>>>>status quo

Please don't take it the wrong way in me asking this, but could you explain your logic behind support for abortions at full-term? Actually, include in that the last month or two of the pregnancy in general, as a fetus can usually survive outside of the womb at this stage. Thanks.

[tmthforu94]

In that case my order of preference is Gass's bill>Mr. X's bill>>>>Tmth's bill>>>>>>>>>>status quo

Please don't take it the wrong way in me asking this, but could you explain your logic behind support for abortions at full-term? Actually, include in that the last month or two of the pregnancy in general, as a fetus can usually survive outside of the womb at this stage. Thanks.

I just don't think that this is something our region has to have a law on when there already is a federal law. Granted it's a weird time for this right now given that the federal law is in limbo but eventually there will be some law at the federal level and that is sufficient for me. It just seems redundant to have a second layer of laws at the regional level with only minor differences from the federal law when the only problem with the federal law is that it is temporarily in question.

But if the current federal law is in limbo, why can't we just establish a regional law to stay on the safe side? Yeah, it's layered, but why's that such a problem? It occurs all of the time.

[tmthforu94]

I would certainly rather rely on set standards agreed to in this region rather than federal law, as this is an issue where I could see federal statue changing from time to time on, and we'd potentially have to make adjustments later for it.

[tmthforu94]

I say we call to a vote Mr. X's compromise bill.

I second this. It seems this compromise has broad support.

Define "broad support". Personally, I remain opposed to his "compromise" - the second trimester is what is key to me.

[tmthforu94]

I would prefer this:

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[tmthforu94]

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Can we get a call to vote on this?

It has already been voted on.

[tmthforu94]

Can we get a final vote on it so that we can send it to the Governor's desk (if that's necessary)

I have proposed an amendment that still needs discussed and voted on.

[tmthforu94]

Can we get a final vote on it so that we can send it to the Governor's desk (if that's necessary)

I have proposed an amendment that still needs discussed and voted on.

In that case, can we please get a vote on Governor Tmthforu94's amendment?  I don't think there's been discussion for over 48 hours. 

Okay, I'll generate discussion:

I'm interested in hearing arguments on why allowing abortion in the second semester is necessary. I tried doing some research on when most women find out that they're pregnant - some find out as early as four weeks, while the average seems to be around eight weeks. Should a woman decide to have an abortion, this would give women several weeks to still decide if she wants to have the abortion.

[tmthforu94]

I would love for my concerns to possibly be addressed before a final vote is brought about on my amendment.

[tmthforu94]

Can we get a final vote on it so that we can send it to the Governor's desk (if that's necessary)

I have proposed an amendment that still needs discussed and voted on.

In that case, can we please get a vote on Governor Tmthforu94's amendment?  I don't think there's been discussion for over 48 hours.  

Okay, I'll generate discussion:

I'm interested in hearing arguments on why allowing abortion in the second semester is necessary. I tried doing some research on when most women find out that they're pregnant - some find out as early as four weeks, while the average seems to be around eight weeks. Should a woman decide to have an abortion, this would give women several weeks to still decide if she wants to have the abortion.

It takes a while for a the person to be able to truly investigate alternatives and be able to make an informed decision that they will be able to live with.  Also, I'd argue that my amendment was a fair compromise between repealing the Mideast Abortion Statute II and existing regional law.  Also, let's not forget that my amendment already passed.  

Based on the average, a woman would have four weeks to investigate alternatives under my amendment. How long do they need?

[tmthforu94]

Can we get a final vote on it so that we can send it to the Governor's desk (if that's necessary)

I have proposed an amendment that still needs discussed and voted on.

In that case, can we please get a vote on Governor Tmthforu94's amendment?  I don't think there's been discussion for over 48 hours.  

Okay, I'll generate discussion:

I'm interested in hearing arguments on why allowing abortion in the second semester is necessary. I tried doing some research on when most women find out that they're pregnant - some find out as early as four weeks, while the average seems to be around eight weeks. Should a woman decide to have an abortion, this would give women several weeks to still decide if she wants to have the abortion.

It takes a while for a the person to be able to truly investigate alternatives and be able to make an informed decision that they will be able to live with.  Also, I'd argue that my amendment was a fair compromise between repealing the Mideast Abortion Statute II and existing regional law.  Also, let's not forget that my amendment already passed.  

Based on the average, a woman would have four weeks to investigate alternatives under my amendment. How long do they need?

At least until the end of the second trimester.  Also, you referred to it as the second semester

Why do you think they need that long, though?

I'm in college - it's the end of the semester, so it's been in my mind a lot.

[tmthforu94]

Would anybody be willing to go along with changing it to after week 20 of pregnancy, the half-way point?

I think the amendment is fine in its present form and honestly, I'd prefer a final vote on my amendment sooner rather than later if possible (especially given that it received unanimous support during the first vote).

It received unanimous support because most who are even pro-choice believe it is absolutely wrong to kill a fetus at full-term - I can't believe we even had to discuss whether or not to have it.

[tmthforu94]

I ask that the following amendment be considered:

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