🇩🇪 German elections (federal & EU level)

[WMS]

Ran across this:

Germany protests to Russia over pre-election cyberattacks

BERLIN (AP) — Germany has protested to Russia over attempts to steal data from lawmakers in what it suspects may have been preparation to spread disinformation before the upcoming German election, the Foreign Ministry in Berlin said Monday.

In mid-July, the head of Germany’s domestic intelligence agency said that since February his agency had seen activity focusing on phishing attempts on the private email accounts of federal and state lawmakers and their staff. But he said that very few of those attempts were successful, and in cases where they were successful it appeared little damage had been caused.

Germany’s concerns about Russian interference have extended to the activities of state-funded broadcaster RT, whose online-only German-language service has for years emphasized divisive issues such as migration and the restrictions imposed because of the coronavirus pandemic.

Curious what people, particularly Germans, think about it.

[WMS]

Who would Russia prefer to see win the election between the CDU, the SPD and the Greens?

The Greens are the most hawkish on Russia, being strongly against Nord Stream 2 and for closer ties with the United States; while the CDU/CSU is the most dovish, supporting Merkel’s foreign policy of putting German commercial and economic interests above ideology. The SPD is somewhere in between.

BTW, a result like that in Bavaria (CSU under 30 and SPD/Greens splitting the centre-left vote in half) really could explode the size of the Bundestag because of compensation seats, as CSU probably still would win most of the direct seats.

Germany failed at building a “Thousand-year Reich”, so now they are aiming for a more achievable “Thousand-seat Bundestag”.

Huh, quite the change.

Even as late as the 2000s I believe that the SPD was more friendly towards Russia than the CDU

That was mostly due to the Lord of the Rings (Gerhard Schröder), who apart from having a long history of marriages was and is a complete Russophile. The Red-Green government’s chilly relations with the Bush administration over the Iraq War also played a role, fomenting the CDU’s image as the pro-American party.

Ah, yes, Gerhard Schröder. Still adored by some for his “principles” despite not actually having any beyond rabid Russophilia and equally rabid Americaphobia. I mean he immediately went to the board of Nord Stream AG and later Rosneft. Talk about personally profiting from decisions he made as Prime Minister!

[WMS]

Who would Russia prefer to see win the election between the CDU, the SPD and the Greens?

The Greens are the most hawkish on Russia, being strongly against Nord Stream 2 and for closer ties with the United States; while the CDU/CSU is the most dovish, supporting Merkel’s foreign policy of putting German commercial and economic interests above ideology. The SPD is somewhere in between.

BTW, a result like that in Bavaria (CSU under 30 and SPD/Greens splitting the centre-left vote in half) really could explode the size of the Bundestag because of compensation seats, as CSU probably still would win most of the direct seats.

Germany failed at building a “Thousand-year Reich”, so now they are aiming for a more achievable “Thousand-seat Bundestag”.

Huh, quite the change.

Even as late as the 2000s I believe that the SPD was more friendly towards Russia than the CDU

That was mostly due to the Lord of the Rings (Gerhard Schröder), who apart from having a long history of marriages was and is a complete Russophile. The Red-Green government’s chilly relations with the Bush administration over the Iraq War also played a role, fomenting the CDU’s image as the pro-American party.

Ah, yes, Gerhard Schröder. Still adored by some for his “principles” despite not actually having any beyond rabid Russophilia and equally rabid Americaphobia. I mean he immediately went to the board of Nord Stream AG and later Rosneft. Talk about personally profiting from decisions he made as Prime Minister!

And actually on the subject of historic Russophilia in the SPD, isn't that basically why the Western allies backed the CDU and Adenauer at the beginning of the BRD? Because the CDU was staunchly pro-Western and anti-Soviet, while the SPD was more somewhere in between?

On that question I will defer to those like Al who know a lot more about it. He did mention one of the early SPD leaders calling the East German Communists “Red Fascists” which hits the nail on the head IMO…

[WMS]

I am more concerned with Die Linke’s pro-Russian, anti-NATO stance than their past failings. Supporting Vladimir Putin’s regime doesn’t exactly give one confidence in their support for democracy.

[WMS]

I am more concerned with Die Linke’s pro-Russian, anti-NATO stance than their past failings. Supporting Vladimir Putin’s regime doesn’t exactly give one confidence in their support for democracy.

They are clearly anti-NATO. That doesn't mean, they are "pro-Putin". The AfD on the other hand is officially pro-NATO and "pro-Putin" at the same time. And for the SPD the most important thing is, that the gas pipline through the Baltic Sea gets completed and started.

Well from Wikipedia:

The party calls for a replacement of NATO with a collective security system including Russia as a member country.

The Left would have all American military bases within Germany, and if possible in the European Union, enacted within a binding treaty, dissolved.

However, Gysi has noted that "older" elements of the party have a strong penchant for Russia and the Soviet Union.

Some members of the party (like MP Andrej Hunko) are strong supporters of the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic.

Not encouraging on that front.

Of course the AfD is worse. And did you mean the CDU in the comment about the gas pipeline?*

*The policy of shutting down nuclear, ramping up coal, and heavily increasing German dependence on Russian natural gas strikes me as batsh!t insane on every level, but you do you, Germany.

[WMS]

And did you mean the CDU in the comment about the gas pipeline?*

I meant the SPD as chancellor Gerhard Schröder was a main initiator of the project and the SPD-led state government of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern now even founded a foundation to, they call "environment foundation" to make PR for the project. But yeah, the only major party really against this project are the Greens.

On the other things, maybe from an US American perspective on a "new cold war" angle, every leap that would reduce the military influence of the US in Germany is "pro Russian". But that is not really the way, German-Russian relations are thought of, here. In fact, US interests and European/German interests not necessarily align, in this field.

In theory I would prefer a pan-European collective security system (and a European defense strategy) including Russia to the NATO-Russia confronation, we have today. But that's clearly not a realistic approach as Russia in the era of Putin clearly is not acting in good faith.

And for the russophilia, well, there had been strong connections between East Germany and Russia for forty-five years, of course this has an influence on how people here view Russia or think, they understand Russia. In fact, for the middle-aged and older generations, here, the US are much more alien and "un-European" than Russia. So, it doesn't strike me as odd, that parties who would have a huge chunk of their voter base in the East reflect this a bit. What strikes me as odd, is that the west German right-wing-conservatives who for two generations feared "the Russian in front of their door" are reviving the old German conservative russophilia of the Kaiserreich, too.

BTW, coal isn't ramped up in Germany, instead it's renewables and yes, pitifully, partly also natural gas.

Schröder I’ve covered elsewhere so no need to rehash that. And I am greatly enjoying Green foreign policy at the moment.

Reduce? Hell, Die Linke wants to permanently remove the American military presence from all of Europe! While inviting the Russians in! That’s pretty pro-Russian.

I am quite aware that Germany has, via Nord Stream and other means, pushed its own interests* ahead of anyone else’s when it comes to Russia, often by selling out the interests of all the countries in between Germany and Russia. As long as German investments in Russia aren’t touched and Russian gas supplies to Germany flow unimpeded, the German state doesn’t care much about what Russia does to its east.

*European interests and German interests are not one and the same.

Ah, you’d prefer a structure that “keeps the Russians in, the Americans out, and the Poles down”?

‘Not acting in good faith’ well, tell me which country has invaded and annexed the territory of another sovereign country recently? Not to mention all the Russian puppet states they’ve carved out of their neighbors?

Not surprised about the West German right-wing conservatives moving in a pro-Russian direction: authoritarians gonna be authoritarians.

I was going off of what Asatine has to say about German energy policy. Shutting down the nuclear plants before developing the renewable alternatives…

[WMS]

And did you mean the CDU in the comment about the gas pipeline?*

And for the russophilia, well, there had been strong connections between East Germany and Russia for forty-five years, of course this has an influence on how people here view Russia or think, they understand Russia. In fact, for the middle-aged and older generations, here, the US are much more alien and "un-European" than Russia. So, it doesn't strike me as odd, that parties who would have a huge chunk of their voter base in the East reflect this a bit. What strikes me as odd, is that the west German right-wing-conservatives who for two generations feared "the Russian in front of their door" are reviving the old German conservative russophilia of the Kaiserreich, too.

Isn't an obvious reason, perhaps, that a Marxist-Leninist USSR with huge number of soldiers in East Germany is objectively and qualitatively different than a fairly non-ideological, hybrid-regime-ruled Russia whose closest armed forces are now over in Kaliningrad?

I mean, 30 years is plenty of time to adjust to the changed realities--though, admittedly, many people even now like to act like it's still the Cold War (see: the D.C. foreign policy/military blob, etc). But maybe Germans are just more clear on this point

Pointing out the Russian-Chinese push to gain hegemony over “the liberal West” is not ‘acting like it’s still the Cold War’ it is adjusting to the changed realities. Just because it’s not about The Communist Threat anymore doesn’t mean great power competition ceased. And there is still an ideological component to it: Russia and China are doing all they can to undermine democracy and promote authoritarianism. This will inevitably cause different political alignments both within and between countries, such as German right-wing conservatives now adoring Russia. Labeling any and all criticism of Russian and Chinese actions and motives as just old Cold Warriors stuck in the past is intellectually lazy and politically dishonest.