Celebrate the 9-9 Senate - Down from 11-7 Labor! - Labor Losing Ground with Voters

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Finally so people other than a select few can know what the hell is going on. I shouldn't have had to have "gone for a walk" to make this happen.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YuSXEKgUmI

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lincoln:


The right is going to be kicking themselves for not running anyone against Kaiser

After spending the last month slaying the Dwarven Dragon, it would have been deemed quixotic to make such an attempt on Kaiser.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Everyone said the Patriot Party was going to "divide the right" and ruin turnout for the Federalists.... Instead we got a landslide victory!

The election isn't over until tonight.

Hard to imagine a scenario where we lose at this point, unless a bunch of randoms vote last minute.

"You may get your dander up, but its discipline that wins the day" - paraphrase from line from Stonewall Jackson as portrayed in the movie God's and Generals.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

what landslide

Wild extrapolations on Saturday before 50% of the votes are in are inaccurate and probably wishful thinking/editorializing/trying to get a rise out of Yankee, who knew!

Frankly, forcing the creation of this thread, had nothing to do with the results at the time.  I have been planning this for weeks, this just gave me the opportunity on a matter of grave interest to the voting public, the ability to see WTF is going on.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I also love how nobody denies Weatherboy being considered one of the 11 Labor aligned senators. Talk about weak leadership in what should be a strong centrist party. Voting for every piece of Labor legislation and hating LT so much doesn't pay off! I will win out in the end. I always do.

It is ironic how the supposed centrist Senator is left of like nearly everyone in the left's caucus.

Much like TPPs caucus in early 2015, which billed itself as the opposition to labor but contained all lefty Senators by that point, leaving an 8-2 Senate in reality.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I can't recall Democratic Alliance ever referring to itself as centrist in any official capacity.

Well if that's the case your name doesn't help, considering it:
1. Is the name of a historical centrist party from twelve years ago
2. Has the word alliance in it, which has frequently been used in a centrist context
3. And your party was founded by and includes many center aligned politicians and figures.

If your objective is to be anti-Labor Left, your branding so far, doesn't match the desired outcome.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its funny that you would complain about DA not being "true centrist" but to actually brand yourself as centrist in Atlasia is to invite constant ridicule and bashing for spinelessness and never-ending speculation about whose side you're really working for.

Just like to be on the left is to invite constant ridicule and never ending condemnation for supporting ever more centralized power, various left wing social causes etc etc.

Just like to be on the right is to invite constant ridicule and condemnation for being reactionary and constantly being subjected to the "You're one of them ain't ya" test

Welcome to Politics!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I can't recall Democratic Alliance ever referring to itself as centrist in any official capacity.

Well if that's the case your name doesn't help, considering it:
1. Is the name of a historical centrist party from twelve years ago
2. Has the word alliance in it, which has frequently been used in a centrist context
3. And your party was founded by and includes many center aligned politicians and figures.

If your objective is to be anti-Labor Left, your branding so far, doesn't match the desired outcome.

Also worth mentioning that a candidate billing as a "true centrist and pragmatist", placed second in this nine seat At-large election with strong support from the ex-pat DAers and cross support from center right Federalists and indies. CR received our help from the Fed Leadership on the basis of being an independent voice that would bring change to the status quo in Nyman.

Only to be met with a blockade from his own party chair, a public disavowal at the start of the election and a rather concerningly timed push to update the party's expulsion provisions. Not to mention the open salivating on lokcord over the possibility of not showing up in January so WB can again be reappointed after losing. For a candidate, who is new to game and that just got elected on the above basis and the change that it would bring, got our help on the above basis and also billed the candidacy in favor of "true representation", that would be a disgraceful sequence of events if it played out.

I have not seen a party treat one of its own members this terribly since Oakvale left Truman for dead alongside the road in 2015. And when the Federalists tried to return the favor to Oakvale in late 2017, I not only didn't join in the effort, I thwarted it through "legalism" (which if you now anything about the period is God Tier irony).

As for the "ostensible" motivating factor, CR did not join this game or the DA just yesterday. For someone who openly crows about effective GOTV in this thread, to have not ascertained clarity on a position of great import prior to day 1 of the election (in a party with less than 20 members mind you, which should lend itself to better clarity and ease of communication such that I envy their position only in that extent) and thus to be in a position to find it  "necessitated" for the sake of the "noble cause" to blockade said candidate and invoke the above ill treatment doesn't obviate them of responsibility for the ill treatment stated above, it is rather a condemnation of their competence as a leader and renders them fully responsible thus for the sequence of events.

For my part, I was in communication with CR earlier in the week, ascertained what was important for the sake of this election (see above) and communicated both my intent (stated above) and CR's independence (also stated in the signature) and likely disagreement with us on many issues, in the simplest of terms before we even made the nomination.  

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well pardon us for being hesitant to support a candidate who made statements which went personally against some of our most important members. As a party we have accepted members with a wide array of policy positions but we that's a line we can't cross. Still, we have yet to go forward with any expulsion proceedings and are trying to talk it out now. Meanwhile the federalists don't seem to have any problem backing an anti-federalist party that's punching way above its weight.

Sorry Ninja, but you walked into this one.

Again, for a party of only 15 members, these concerns should have been "talked out" before the election and thus avoided the spectacle of the chair publicly opposing the candidacy of one of their party's newest members.

As for Dabbing, again, we have routinely compromised for the sake of seat 4 and 5 in the past nominating and supporting such people as Lumine and yourself for said positions on the slate among many others (even unto including Oakvale) who take more centralist positions on some issues if not across the board. That that you had no problem with us nominating you guys while objecting to us supporting Dabbing in a similar position on the slate, can only be derived from a double standard.

The difference is you approach these matters as subjects of identitarian purism, while we don't.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Take for example, in February into March 2014, we put in all efforts to get Lumine elected over Adam in that special election by just 1 vote. Lumine was pro-regional consolidation but agreed with us on most economic issues and his vote would late prove to be critical on a number of Duke's economic policies as well as health care (the pre-reset one).

Was this deviation a betrayal of principle and a mistake to be avoided? Even at the expense of thwarting the first governing majority for the center right in the history of the Game?

A year later in the exact same seat, after Bacon King resigned to become Vice President, the special election again featured Griffin. We pushed doctrinaire conservative and regionalist JCL into the final round over Foucaulf, knowing that JCL would get crushed by Adam (he was 60-40).  Of course the Senate was already 8-2 left so that getting reduced by .5 (assuming Foucaulf wasn't just completely meme as so many radicals were at the time like Talleyrand, then it is a reduction of 0 if so) changed nothing, still a left supermajority regardless. This election playing out this way, was a critical step in facilitating the Federalist revival and later being able to actually save the game from the radicals.

Should we have "stopped Labor at all costs" in that situation even though the dynamics had changed and objective was survival on our terms and not being absorbed into the AtlasforumIRC blob?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Some very funny stuff going on here.

Firstly, Yankee and LT admitting that their perception of [the current iteration of] the Democratic Alliance was the same as Labor’s: that the DA was and was always meant to be a front that acted essentially as a caucus of the Federalist Party while putting on the public image of being a moderate or even center-left outfit.

For my purposes no, though I won't speak for LT. When the Feds left to join DA it was on the assumption that they would support us "where our interests aligned" but that they would remain independent and their primary goal along with the Liberal revival at the time was to break the stuck nature of Atlasian politics with Labor dominating everything.

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, of course, but I am surprised to see LT and Yankee admitting it so soon. “You should support us on all matters of power balance but vote your conscience on issues” is essentially asking them to be pre-2020 Justin Amash or present day Jared Golden - pretty stark admission.

Again, LT's words not mine. Don't put words in my mouth Sestak.

Of course it’s also completely true regarding what the Democratic Alliance was in its first year - the party acted fully willingly as a permanent junior partner to the Federalists, and seemed content with such a position. Essentially the entire electoral ability of the party came from Jimmy, and by the time the DA started he hated Labor so much that he was never going to work with anyone but the Federalists. While there were some rumors that always floated around about schisms between the parties (especially during YT’s campaign) but seeing as nothing ever came of any of these rumors it is safe to assume they were little more than theater.

Then after February the feds decided they wanted to drop all pretense; they pulled Jimmy out of the DA and into the Federalists proper. At this point they (as well as those of us in Labor) expected the DA to just shrivel up and die; the April elections seemed to confirm this. They managed to hold on through June simply because it was a voting bloc that LT/feds didn’t want to lose.

We did not pull Jimmy, Jimmy made that move on his own. Jimmy has been sliding more to the right as this year has progressed.

Now after June and the post-election stuff that went on there the DA essentially went renegade and decided to cut most of their direct ties with the Feds. I haven’t paid enough attention to Aug/Oct but I assume they managed to survive without these ties by building a base big enough not to win a full seat but to get enough votes that whichever party appears weaker for the final contested seat is incentivized to make a deal with them.

Its more the implementation of the DA "embargo" after the August election concluded and after currying our support in that election to then turn around and combined issues with LT with faux claims about us "not delivering for them" in races we did not even endorse them in.  If anyone had presumption of a satelite status or some such blind obligation, it was them not us as evidenced by these charges mostly from Wulfric

Accusing them of being Labor satellites just because Labor happened to be the ones ‘on the bump’ this time is quite silly. As is claiming the DA is somehow misrepresenting being a centrist party or whatever; yeah the DA is going against its original purpose but their original purpose has always been counter to their public image.

The accusation is not that they ceased to be a Satellite, but that by embargoing the Federalists, they forced themselves into a corner with Labor and doomed the game back to Labor dominance, again.
 

Also a quick note on centrist republican: any sane party leader, upon hearing that one of their candidates was going behind their back to coordinate with another party’s apparatus (which Yankee indicated was occurring here) would have the reaction to immediately drop support for them. No one supports a duplicitous candidate unless they’re forced into it by circumstance.

Okay this is complete bullsh@%t, Sestak and I would encourage you to get the facts before you hurl slanderous accusations around like this, especially ones that might discourage a new player.

Centrist Republican declared. I PMed him encouraging him to seek our endorsement on the basis of having a diverse slate. He stated he would not be submissive to us and I said that was fine, we were looking for an independent minded moderate to fill out our slate and bring change to Nyman. We endorsed him in the convention and made him the 4th slot At-Large endorsement and he was listed on my first round of PMs that way. All of this endorsement process proceeded in public, I said the same thing in public to support the endorsement as I did in the PMs to CR (diverse slate and all that) and no one raised his being endorsed by us as an issue (see below).

WB then posted on Friday (During the Election's Outset) that he couldn't support him because of past comments about trans issues (nothing else) and many of the DAers refused to preference him or preferenced him very low. After this I then PMed CR saying it was unfortunate that his own chair had blockaded him in this fashion, sent him a list of people he should contact and a reasonable number of votes needed to win the election and that if he was in the hunt, we might be able to send some Fed votes his way at the end. CR was not online for the election (thus did not even see the list I sent him until after it as done), but he got some of these votes anyway and we had plenty to spare so we help him get the rest and pushed him over the top with our reserve. The accusation that he conspired with us thus or whatever other Labor thuggery projection bullsh@$t you got going on in that skull of yours is complete nonsense.

All of the direct first prefs from Feds came after WB and DA leadership cast him adrift, an action which hardened my desire and instincts to help him, similar to how I pushed even harder to help Fairbol after he was falsely accused of some criminal activity IRL on discord in April 2018.

CR did not defeat WB, OBD did. Few of the votes CR got would have gone to WB and those that might have gone WB that he did get thus were not really swayed by us (to my knowledge. Mongoose comes to mind being the first CR vote and the result of a pre-existing relationship on the forum from what I can tell). Mongoose was on the list I sent CR, but since CR had not been on since Thursday and I did not contact Mongoose myself either, its safe to say that this vote was natural support. That CR won was not the result of us "meddling",  It was us keeping the promises to an endorsed third party candidate that DAers falsely accused us of violating in August.  In doing so, we were fixing one of the ostensibly cited problems that motivated the outrageous embargo in the first place.

There was open salivating on lokcord, immediately after the election, about the prospects of him not showing up to take the oath so that WB could be reappointed to the vacancy. WB at the same time pushed to update the party expulsion procedures. None of this was because "we helped CR", it was because of CR's position on trans issues, a situation that should have been addressed or at least discussed prior to the election. Certainly the disgusting spectacle of a chair crapping all over his own party's candidate (Who is new to the game) Oakvale style should have been avoided and if his position still be unacceptable, his status in the party addressed then.

Nobody called for Utah Neolib to decline the special election seat after LT revealed he helped to GOTV Utah to victory in Lincoln and no one accused Utah of conspiracy because Lincoln Federalists votes made it possible and even PMed some of those Feds for their votes. We as Federalists are free to vote for who we want and us offering support to an independent minded candidate is not a "nefarious" action except in the minds of a Labor machine hack and this bizarro world where a nebulus and undefined blockade is selectively imposed on one party to force an action that will never occur and selectively violated by them when convenient.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also it is really stomach churning to here accusations of duplicitousness from a guy who blatantly lied to the Senate in order to obtain confirmation to appointed office, then proceeded to do the very thing he promised not to do during the confirmation (Become Labor Chair again, which he promised not to do because of credible concerns about sustainability of his activity level after resigning and deregistering because of overload).

Likewise from the guy who GOTVed an inexperienced puppet into the Presidency so he could be the power behind the throne, only to then throw said President under the bus.

Not to mention how he helped cripple the previous administration he GOTVed out of office, a month in by joining it and then participating in a mass resignation that left the President reeling trying to fill the vacancies.

For a guy whose duplicitousness @%#^$# me out of the Presidency, I don't want to hear a god damn word about fulfilling commitments to a publicly declared endorsement.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Firstly, Yankee and LT admitting that their perception of [the current iteration of] the Democratic Alliance was the same as Labor’s: that the DA was and was always meant to be a front that acted essentially as a caucus of the Federalist Party while putting on the public image of being a moderate or even center-left outfit.

I was a member of the DA around the time of its founding and its original purpose was going to be a large big tent anti-Labor party and they were trying to get lfromnj/OSR to join the party while trying to get left wingers to join the party.

Indeed that was the original purpose, though since pretty much the beginning of this year things have changed, something I link back to a conversation I had with tmth about the future of the party after the December Disaster.

And yankee, communication is a two-way street. We had no contact from the feds about CR, so all we could assume was that they were running as DA in name only. With highly known trans politicians like UNL in our party we also couldn't ignore what he had said a while back. I still am waiting for a response from him on it. I do not care whether he works with you on this (as a matter of principle, we still aren't going to punish people for taking a different side), I care whether he is still transphobic.

There is no formal communication between the DA and the Fed chairs because of your actions in August.

When I saw him declare I thought he was an Indy. Then I realized he was DA after I asked him to seek the nomination of the Feds, I figured you were going for two. Then I saw your Oakvalelian cosplay...

The only post I saw relating to trans issues by him before Monday was a vague statement saying he was "center right on the issue". It looked to me like you were going firing squad first, clarification later

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yankee, I think you are interpreting my 'duplicitous' comment as a more negative one than it was. Perhaps the wording was harsh but I wasn't intending to pass a moral judgement on Centrist Republican; merely a risk assessment from the perspective of a party leader. Granted, I could be wrong about CR's situation but it seemed to me that from the moment the first votes were cast he was running as a Federalist candidate in all but name.

Obviously if CR had coordinated with the party leadership before hand and then just before the election they had changed his mind to oppose him then yeah; that is obviously a terrible decision on behalf of the DA.

On the other hand if he just chose to run on his own without even talking to anyone in DA leadership, but then coordinated with Fed leadership after you reached out, then that should have been a red flag to them. For one thing, it undercuts any negotiating position the party could have had in trying to form a coalition. Also, the DA and any other centrist party cannot be quite as liberal (small 'l') with their candidate selection as the Feds have the liberty to be. The federalists gain broadly any time a player broadly on the right or center is promoted, as the base of Federalism is well established as the central pillar of both the center-right and the right. The DA on the other hand needs to focus on people who believe in the Democratic Alliance as a concept because their natural risk of being displaced entirely is much higher.

Not going to comment on the other stuff (some of it is true, some of it is hyperbole), but this

Not to mention how he helped cripple the previous administration he GOTVed out of office, a month in by joining it and then participating in a mass resignation that left the President reeling trying to fill the vacancies.

is ridiculous. DFW bullied me out of your administration over something I did while trying to get a constitutional amendment ratified (one of the ones you championed if I recall), threatening to have me charged with something or other. This combined with several of my closer friends choosing to leave the game at the same time just left me not wanting to deal with it all - I was still only a few months into the game and seemed to be seeing hostility in every direction. If you want to air this particular grievance, take it up with him.

If it was just one thing maybe, but the combination of the two amounts to me getting f again.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

For the record, what did CentristRepublican say that was transphobic?  We know how leftists are these days with throwing around baseless accusations.  Let's get the facts first.

Because while you can't control who you fall in love with, you have one gender, the one given to you at birth, and any claims that you are actually from the other gender, or are "trapped" in the body of a male when you are female (or vice-versa), are completely false (and should be cause for concern), and you shouldn't be allowed to surgically change your gender. There's a clear line - you are born one gender, and you shouldn't try to change that gender; it should not at all be condoned by the government under any circumstances.

Weatherboy, you're not going to cancel your way to re-appointing yourself to the Senate. CentristRepublican won't let himself be your chew toy like Wulfric was.* You need to respect the results of the election. The people had their democratic say, and you lost.

*That sounds funny considering you're a furry, lol.

That’s not what I’m trying to do, lol. I’ve pretty well implied that if he doesn’t say that he’s changed that I’d move to expel him from the party, which would completely cut off my path to the senate through those means. You seem to overestimate how much I care about a seat. I care about people like UNL having to deal with this stuff saying that something has to be wrong with them if they feel uncomfortable in their own body.

Assuming he doesn't see this mess and say f this Im out before you reach that point.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And I care that we aren't lynching new players out the gate like what happened to Leinad, Clark and rest who were guilty until proven innocent of being a sock by the elitist clique.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

Ah yes, the old "us and the 'approved opposition" card. And you wonder why i said you were destroying the game on lokcord.

Also that is not how at-large works. You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

If 11% of the population are Trumpists, guess how many Trumpists will be in At-Large class, class?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

Oh for the love of crap, spare me this pedantic bs. You know exactly what I mean by populism in this context. Also if said grouping has no support, guess which grouping won't be present in the At-large class, class?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

S019, if you want true multi-factional politics, why don't you start your own statist neoliberal party and actually leverage your power through your senate voting record?

I am neither a statist.

So I can pump my own gas and build my own front porch now?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

Well to begin with, "populism" is not an ideology, parties like VOX and the Swedish Democrats, which identify as right-wing populists are in actuality: ultranationalist and national conservatives. As for conservatives itself, that is such a broad tent, what do you mean?: liberal conservatives? progressive conservatives? paternalistic conservatives? traditionalist conservatives? etc., "pro-lifers" is not a distinct category in-and-of itself, it is merely a descriptor. "Libertarianism" is really the only one of these labels that truly fills a niche and is descriptive enough to justify its own spot. Given the broadness of the conservative movement, you'd need 5 or 6 seats to truly satisfy those conditions.

Oh for the love of crap, spare me this pedantic bs. You know exactly what I mean by populism in this context. Also if said grouping has no support, guess which grouping won't be present in the At-large class, class?

well you can still agree not to work with them, which brings me to:

As someone who is not comfortable with all of CentristRepublican's views and has no stake in this fight at all, I'll just note he's young and naive, however these comments are still disturbing, and he should apologize. Anyways, I do genuinely hope he takes his seat, moderate conservatism is on the decline in Atlasia, emboldened by the rise of the far right as I demonstrated elsewhere, and it is reassuring to see a conservative who only cares about taxes and couldn't care less about stupidity like legalizing assault weapons, banning mask mandates, or whatever else the ""normie"" right is up to these days.

The problem with your approach is that is leaves 80% of the right without representation. I am fine with having moderates on the slate and such is necessary but so are conservatives, pro lifers, libertarians and populists.

That's the point.

Ah yes, the old "us and the 'approved opposition" card. And you wonder why i said you were destroying the game on lokcord.

Also that is not how at-large works. You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

If 11% of the population are Trumpists, guess how many Trumpists will be in At-Large class, class?

And this is why you would establish some form of cordon sanitaire. No cooperation with the far right, they may get elected, but if you make it clear that you won't work with them, then you can indeed reassert your control over the right. People don't like voting for what amounts to little more than a testimonial party.

Its game S019, everything about it is testimonial. Sometimes I think you guys forget that in your rush to incinerate everyone whose views don't match your own.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This reminds me of a year and some months ago when the Greens foolishly plotted as if this was Belgium. They were wrong.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You cannot just suppress or shut down a group of people who have the numbers. They will form their own party and run someone or just run as indies and win on the basis of the numbers.

*giggles in ACP*
 

Alucard Grins in Federalist Longevity. 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

VERY SAD that the post-Trump era has rotted even Yankee's brain so much that he's now an avid, unhinged Trump-supporter hurling curse words at everyone in sight! We should have nuked him as soon as he upgraded from Pentium 4 & Windows Vista!

I was hurling curse words at Marokai Blue and Hamilton before Trump was even whining about birth certificates.

And you can kiss my AMD Ryzen's...  Never had Vista on any of my computers, nor any Pentiums except my 1990s rigs.