Opinion of the American Apostolic Old Catholic Church

[Associate Justice PiT]

     They don't explicitly say it, but the things they have to say about ecumenical councils seem to imply that they share the belief that I have seen elsewhere that the Second Millennium councils Catholics hold are not ecumenical because the Orthodox are not involved, which entails a strange and rather innovative definition of what constitutes an ecumenical council. Certainly it is a definition we do not recognize, even though they claim to accept the same councils as we do.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     They don't explicitly say it, but the things they have to say about ecumenical councils seem to imply that they share the belief that I have seen elsewhere that the Second Millennium councils Catholics hold are not ecumenical because the Orthodox are not involved, which entails a strange and rather innovative definition of what constitutes an ecumenical council. Certainly it is a definition we do not recognize, even though they claim to accept the same councils as we do.

Can you elaborate on this? Why wouldn't the Orthodox understanding of ecumenical councils necessitate Orthodox involvement?

     Most certainly we would require our own involvement. My point of view more relates to the concept that the East and West are separate parts that must be reunited for a council to be properly ecumenical. To complete the analogy, to agree to the Old Catholic definition we would have to think that Rome must be included for a council to be ecumenical, which is not a view held by Orthodox Christians. Indeed, some call the Palamite synods of the 1340s the Ninth Ecumenical Council (though this is a minority view).

     From our perspective, an ecumenical council is a council of the Ecumene, or the Roman Empire. The Seven Councils were all called by the Emperor sitting on the throne of Constantinople. We cannot call an ecumenical council now, not because we are lacking something, for the Church lacks nothing, but because the imperial throne wherein the authority to call the council is vested lies empty.

     Pan-Orthodox synods can still happen, and they can decree things for the entire Church, but none of them will be numbered among the ecumenical councils. And it honestly doesn't matter that much. We have had dogmatic pronouncements from various second millennium councils, e.g. Blachernae 1285, Constantinople 1351, Jerusalem 1672. The idea that it's not dogmatic if it isn't said in an ecumenical council just isn't a thing in the Orthodox Church.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     From our perspective, an ecumenical council is a council of the Ecumene, or the Roman Empire. The Seven Councils were all called by the Emperor sitting on the throne of Constantinople. We cannot call an ecumenical council now, not because we are lacking something, for the Church lacks nothing, but because the imperial throne wherein the authority to call the council is vested lies empty.

Interesting. Is it possible to claim that the imperial throne of authority to call the council now lies somewhere else? I’m rather surprised Putin hasn’t tried something of the sort, and very surprised if the Romanov’s didn’t.

     This gets into Third Rome territory. Many Orthodox Christians hold the opinion that when Constantinople fell in 1453 that its status as the foremost city of the Church transferred to Moscow. Some object to this identification saying that no canon recognized by the entire Church has ever established Moscow as the Third Rome, whereas Constantinople was identified as the New Rome in Constantinople 381 and subsequently confirmed as such in Chalcedon 451 and Trullo 692, though it also seems that the power of the Constantinopolitan throne to call a council preceded any such canon.

     On the other hand, the Ecumenical Patriarch and his allies are generally opposed to Third Rome beliefs, because they perceive it as a challenge to the prerogatives they assert and are attempting to expand. This perception is in various parts true and false, but it nevertheless exists.

     Suffice it to say, the answer to your question is that it is possible, but any attempt to exercise such authority would be highly controversial.