Republican AG says he'll investigate Indiana doctor who provided care to 10-year-old rape victim

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The ironic thing is this was a top national news story yet the criminal act is supposedly failure to report. I suppose if turning on the TV doesn't count.

Yes, law enforcement could have turned on the TV and heard about a case about an unnamed 10-year old girl from somewhere in Ohio. I'm sure that would have been very helpful to them in finding the rapist and making sure the girl was safe in case it hadn't been reported correctly already.

I guess it's a little classier than the Ohio AG, who, among other Republicans, first came out to say that the 10 year old was a liar. Nevertheless the long march toward a police state speeds up.

No one said the 10 year old was a liar. People have been doubting whether there was any 10 year old. The only source for the story up until the past couple days was the abortionist, and some speculated she'd have a motive to make up a story like this. The Washington Post tried to corroborate the story and came up empty. The AG said he had doubts about the story because his office had no record or evidence of it, which seemed unusual to him if it was true.  Also he said that a pregnancy of a 10 year old would be a major health risk and so abortion allowed under Ohio law.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Has Fox News shown the name and the picture of the rapist? Of course not. There shouldn't even be any debate over this horrible story, but Republicans have become so extreme that even the most disgusting crimes are minimized for political reasons.

Would it change your guess over whether Fox News has shown his name and picture if I tell you the suspect is an illegal immigrant?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized over having an abortion at age 10 because she has since decided that abortion is murder and morally wrong even in such a situation would be minuscule compared to the odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized after giving birth at age 10.

Yeah. From these scenarios..

- Raped as a 10 year old, possibly by father or uncle
- Pregnant for 9 months including the baby kicking, morning sickness
- Giving birth as a 10 year old, maybe had some chance of dying
- Had an abortion when 10, ended the life of the fetus

... which do you think is most likely to cause deep trauma that requires therapy, and which do you think is least likely? Seems obvious to me.

Why would it be obvious?

If a child is raped and becomes pregnant, the likelihood of deep trauma that requires therapy is very high. Beyond that what basis is there for saying for sure whether abortion or birth would be more likely to compound the trauma? 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized over having an abortion at age 10 because she has since decided that abortion is murder and morally wrong even in such a situation would be minuscule compared to the odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized after giving birth at age 10.

Yeah. From these scenarios..

- Raped as a 10 year old, possibly by father or uncle
- Pregnant for 9 months including the baby kicking, morning sickness
- Giving birth as a 10 year old, maybe had some chance of dying
- Had an abortion when 10, ended the life of the fetus

... which do you think is most likely to cause deep trauma that requires therapy, and which do you think is least likely? Seems obvious to me.

Why would it be obvious?

If a child is raped and becomes pregnant, the likelihood of deep trauma that requires therapy is very high. Beyond that what basis is there for saying for sure whether abortion or birth would be more likely to compound the trauma?  

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAM/confused-jaguarsfan.gif

I just don't even know what else to say at this point. If you honestly don't grasp what pregnancy and birth do mentally and physically to a body of any age, much less a preteen carrying her adult rapist's baby, I guess you're just going to have to take the word of people who do.

Why would I take your word for it?  I would take the word of women who had been through this or something similar, and had either had an abortion or given birth. The problem is we know that women don't all respond the same way in either situation.  What do you say to the women raped at a young age who regret their abortions and those who do not regret giving birth?  

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized over having an abortion at age 10 because she has since decided that abortion is murder and morally wrong even in such a situation would be minuscule compared to the odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized after giving birth at age 10.

Yeah. From these scenarios..

- Raped as a 10 year old, possibly by father or uncle
- Pregnant for 9 months including the baby kicking, morning sickness
- Giving birth as a 10 year old, maybe had some chance of dying
- Had an abortion when 10, ended the life of the fetus

... which do you think is most likely to cause deep trauma that requires therapy, and which do you think is least likely? Seems obvious to me.

Why would it be obvious?

If a child is raped and becomes pregnant, the likelihood of deep trauma that requires therapy is very high. Beyond that what basis is there for saying for sure whether abortion or birth would be more likely to compound the trauma? 

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAM/confused-jaguarsfan.gif

I just don't even know what else to say at this point. If you honestly don't grasp what pregnancy and birth do mentally and physically to a body of any age, much less a preteen carrying her adult rapist's baby, I guess you're just going to have to take the word of people who do.

Why would I take your word for it?  I would take the word of women who had been through this or something similar, and had either had an abortion or given birth. The problem is we know that women don't all respond the same way in either situation.  What do you say to the women raped at a young age who regret their abortions and those who do not regret giving birth?

Obviously I would say "I respect your opinion but also recognize you're in the extreme minority." What else would you expect me to say?

There are plenty of testimonials out there of women who gave birth as a preteen if you honestly don't grasp how horrific it is.

And abortion isn't horrific?

I'm asking what is your evidence that they are in the extreme minority?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

CONTEXT
A 2008 report by the American Psychological Association found no evidence that an induced abortion causes mental health problems in adult women. No conclusions were drawn with respect to adolescents because of a scarcity of evidence.

METHODS
Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health were used to examine whether abortion in adolescence was associated with subsequent depression and low self-esteem. In all, 289 female respondents reported at least one pregnancy between Wave 1 (1994–1995) and Wave 2 (1996) of the survey. Of these, 69 reported an induced abortion. Population-averaged lagged logistic regression models were used to assess associations between abortion and depression and low self-esteem within a year of the pregnancy and approximately five years later, at Wave 3 (2001–2002).

RESULTS
Abortion was not associated with depression or low self-esteem at either time point. Socioeconomic and demographic characteristics did not substantially modify the relationships between abortion and the outcomes.

CONCLUSIONS
Adolescents who have an abortion do not appear to be at elevated risk for depression or low selfesteem in the short term or up to five years after the abortion.

note what this study is actually measuring:

Finally, because this study was intended to address the effect of abortion, we did not compare adolescents who became pregnant with their nulliparous peers to examine whether pregnancy itself contributes to poor mental health outcomes. A previous analysis of Add Health data found that teenage mothers had higher levels of psychological distress than their childless peers before and after they became pregnant.46 Childbearing itself was not associated with the development of distress, but social disadvantage was strongly related to poor mental health.

The baseline comparison is to those who who pregnant but did not have an abortion.  So what this study is mainly saying is they can't find a statistically significant mental health outcome overall - better or worse - for abortion compared to those who gave birth.   Though with a somewhat small study (n=289), perhaps they are missing something. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized over having an abortion at age 10 because she has since decided that abortion is murder and morally wrong even in such a situation would be minuscule compared to the odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized after giving birth at age 10.

Yeah. From these scenarios..

- Raped as a 10 year old, possibly by father or uncle
- Pregnant for 9 months including the baby kicking, morning sickness
- Giving birth as a 10 year old, maybe had some chance of dying
- Had an abortion when 10, ended the life of the fetus

... which do you think is most likely to cause deep trauma that requires therapy, and which do you think is least likely? Seems obvious to me.

Why would it be obvious?

If a child is raped and becomes pregnant, the likelihood of deep trauma that requires therapy is very high. Beyond that what basis is there for saying for sure whether abortion or birth would be more likely to compound the trauma? 

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAM/confused-jaguarsfan.gif

I just don't even know what else to say at this point. If you honestly don't grasp what pregnancy and birth do mentally and physically to a body of any age, much less a preteen carrying her adult rapist's baby, I guess you're just going to have to take the word of people who do.

Why would I take your word for it?  I would take the word of women who had been through this or something similar, and had either had an abortion or given birth. The problem is we know that women don't all respond the same way in either situation.  What do you say to the women raped at a young age who regret their abortions and those who do not regret giving birth?   

But isn't this the point of anti-abortionists like yourself to make the solution of one size fit all rather than allowing the choice up to the individual woman or their parents?

My approach to cases like this would be more to encourage a choice not to abort, and supporting whatever would make that choice possible for someone, unless there is a medical threat from the pregnancy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Why would I take your word for it?  I would take the word of women who had been through this or something similar, and had either had an abortion or given birth. The problem is we know that women don't all respond the same way in either situation.  What do you say to the women raped at a young age who regret their abortions and those who do not regret giving birth?   

I wouldn't say anything to them, because how they feel about their pregnancy/abortion it is entirely their business.

I don't think you guys really understand the concept of "pro-choice." If a woman chooses to deliver the pregnancy, that is her prerogative. Pro-choicers don't care if a woman chooses to go through with a pregnancy.

And a 10-year-old is likely going to be traumatized by the decision regardless - whether she gives birth or gets an abortion - because she was impregnated via rape and she is 10.

The situation is inherently traumatic. We don't have a time machine to prevent the rape from happening, so the best we can do is offer girls/women a choice in how they want to proceed. 

Just use your common sense here.

Some women may be perfectly OK with their abortions. Others may regret it. Others may regret not getting an abortion. And others may be perfectly happy with their decision to give birth. No matter what, their feelings are perfectly valid.

We can't know how this little girl is going to feel 10 years from now. Maybe she'll regret it. Maybe she won't. That's up to her.

But taking away that choice from her isn't going to do anything to help her.

You say that "Pro-choicers don't care if a woman chooses to go through with a pregnancy." but some of them in this thread have said that it's *obvious* that an abortion would be *less* traumatic than giving birth for young girl.  If they really think that, it would actually be weird if they didn't care which choice was made.   So that's what I was responding to.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized over having an abortion at age 10 because she has since decided that abortion is murder and morally wrong even in such a situation would be minuscule compared to the odds that a 20 year old woman would be psychologically traumatized after giving birth at age 10.

Yeah. From these scenarios..

- Raped as a 10 year old, possibly by father or uncle
- Pregnant for 9 months including the baby kicking, morning sickness
- Giving birth as a 10 year old, maybe had some chance of dying
- Had an abortion when 10, ended the life of the fetus

... which do you think is most likely to cause deep trauma that requires therapy, and which do you think is least likely? Seems obvious to me.

Why would it be obvious?

If a child is raped and becomes pregnant, the likelihood of deep trauma that requires therapy is very high. Beyond that what basis is there for saying for sure whether abortion or birth would be more likely to compound the trauma? 

https://c.tenor.com/JEj4FA-lXdEAAAAM/confused-jaguarsfan.gif

I just don't even know what else to say at this point. If you honestly don't grasp what pregnancy and birth do mentally and physically to a body of any age, much less a preteen carrying her adult rapist's baby, I guess you're just going to have to take the word of people who do.

Why would I take your word for it?  I would take the word of women who had been through this or something similar, and had either had an abortion or given birth. The problem is we know that women don't all respond the same way in either situation.  What do you say to the women raped at a young age who regret their abortions and those who do not regret giving birth?

Obviously I would say "I respect your opinion but also recognize you're in the extreme minority." What else would you expect me to say?

There are plenty of testimonials out there of women who gave birth as a preteen if you honestly don't grasp how horrific it is.

And abortion isn't horrific?

I'm asking what is your evidence that they are in the extreme minority?

haha holy sh!t this is profoundly evil to the point of absurdity

yeah, it's absurd and evil to question whether abortion is anything other than sunshine and ponies.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Stuff like this is why the anti-abortion extremists are some of the most repulsive people in the country. I can't even begin to imagine the state of absolute degeneracy you would have to be in to twist yourself into thinking that forcing a raped child to carry a pregnancy is the right thing to do. These are the most disgusting people American politics, by far.

A human life begins at conception. Under what circumstances it was conceived is irrelevant- just as how a born person is valuable regardless of the circumstances of how they were created, the same is true of an unborn person. And if standing up for all human lives makes me “the most disgusting person in American politics” according to DaleCooper on talkelections.org… so be it.

Again you are taking your personal philosophical positions and asserting them as incontrovertible fact, and then acting overdramatic when some people don't agree with you.

I literally believe innocent human beings are being murdered with absolutely no repercussions for the murderers. I think a person who believes that, and does nothing about it, is more morally dubious than someone who believes that and doesn’t do anything about it, regardless of any political issues at play.

Ferguson97 actually brought up a surprisingly good point. If you really believe this then why aren't you taking up arms and killing abortion doctors or holding pregnant women seeking an abortion hostage so that they give birth? I'm serious. If I sincerely believed that babies were being murdered next door, I like to think that I would be brave enough to go in and put a stop to it, even if it meant using lethal force. If you're going to have these stupid beliefs at least admit that you're too cowardly and pathetic to do anything about it. If your only answer to "millions of babies being torn limb from limb!" is to post on Atlas about it then you're as guilty as those Uvalde police that were playing Candy Crush while those kids got shot.

Why aren't you in Tijuana right now playing superhero against the human traffickers?