Israel-Gaza war

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Foreign Correspondent

Before the War

https://youtu.be/H7fG0FeVc1o

Some very interesting journalism that was put together, mainly concerning the West Bank settlements, before the onset of violence from Hamas.

Keep in mind this story started as a pro-Palestinian story from Australia's most left wing woke media. But regardless, if you take that wokey 'anti-Israel' bias with a grain of salt, it is still a very interesting story on the situation in Israel.

Very interesting video. Nothing justifies what Hamas did but this attack was certainly not unprovoked. The most interesting part was when the former military officer who served in the West Bank said Israel's settler policy could lead to the destruction of Israel itself. I really think a two state solution is the only one that makes sense for Isreali security in the long term. Do they really think they will be able to subjugate a few million Palestinians for perpetuity? Sooner or later the world will wise up to what is actually happening to Palestinians.

Palestinians should be able to get the world on their side by showing the brutality of Israeli settlers and the occupation of the west bank but you can only do that through non-violence. Every time a terrorist blows up a cafe or nightclub in Tel Aviv or commits the sort of brutality we witnessed a couple weeks ago, it sets back any progress towards a two state solution. The world can easily force a two state solution on the Israelis but that can only happen if the Palestinians can stop themselves from committing terror attacks or vowing to keep fighting till every Jew is gone from Israel. Hamas and Likud/far right Israeli political parties really do feed off of each other...

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What's the point in seeking revenge on innocent people? I've seen inflammatory videos with calls to "erase" the "animals". Meanwhile settlers and the IDF have killed more than 50 Palestinians in the West Bank during the last week, according to B'Tselem. The worst is yet to come

https://twitter.com/danielmkovalik/status/1712973864290947371?t=vn2RDxcGxCOq6mxA...

Israel long wanted to get rid of the Palestinians.

This week’s event just provide Israel with the excuse to do so.

To be fair it is really Likud and its far right brethren who want to do this. The problem for Israeli liberals and moderates is that they don't have a true partner in Palestine to create a two state solution. And while Bibi wants exactly that and propped up Hamas for that reason, we can't just blame him for this. The blame must be laid at the feet of the Palestinians as well.

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I have to say the Israelis have been acting very unstable….the US should seriously demand Netanyahu and the far right bearded freaks step down in exchange for continued US support for Israel.

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Palestinian Journalist Interview

https://fb.watch/nQJ7oT-KRm/

to be fair to the young lady, if she speaks any truth, she's dead in 2 hours.  Good question to ask our anti-Semites though.

Considering the disproportionate and collective punishment Israel wants to impose on Gazans, she probably will be dead in 2 hours.

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Palestinian Journalist Interview

https://fb.watch/nQJ7oT-KRm/

to be fair to the young lady, if she speaks any truth, she's dead in 2 hours.  Good question to ask our anti-Semites though.

Considering the disproportionate and collective punishment Israel wants to impose on Gazans, she probably will be dead in 2 hours.

so, by your logic, slightly more than half the population of Gaza will die in the next two hours and it's entirely Israel's fault?  Seems unlikely to me, but I'm willing to wait to see if you're right.

I may or may not be right about the time frame, but I am afraid I won't be wrong about the final outcome. There seem to be plenty of people within this far right government in Israel that want to deliver collective punishment on the people of Gaza. These people have openly worked against a two state solution. So what do you think they want to do with the Palestinian people in the long term? They are the same as the people on the Palestinian side who also work against a two state solution because they want to kill every single Jew in Israel. Ben Gvir and his ilk would like to eliminate every single Palestinian/Arab in Israel and the occupied territories. Just because one side is full of far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy doesn't mean we have to support the other side's far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy. And both sides include civilians within the umbrella of "enemy".

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I may or may not be right about the time frame,

you are 100% wrong about the time frame, but go on

but I am afraid I won't be wrong about the final outcome. There seem to be plenty of people within this far right government in Israel that want to deliver collective punishment on the people of Gaza. These people have openly worked against a two state solution. So what do you think they want to do with the Palestinian people in the long term? They are the same as the people on the Palestinian side who also work against a two state solution because they want to kill every single Jew in Israel. Ben Gvir and his ilk would like to eliminate every single Palestinian/Arab in Israel and the occupied territories. Just because one side is full of far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy doesn't mean we have to support the other side's far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy. And both sides include civilians within the umbrella of "enemy".

Israel has had the capability to do that for decades and haven't, everyone knows if the combat boots were on the other feet there would be as many Jews in "liberated" Palestine as there are in Egypt and Jordan (virtually none).

Another thing everyone knows is true is that if in 6 months half of Gaza's population is dead, I'll be like "damn, I was very wrong" and if that isn't true, you'll still be an anti-Zionist and will have not changed your views on the issue at all.  And in a few years when the next group of terrorists does enough terrorism to get a response, you'll be singing about how this time they'll really get the genocide going.

Sure, Israel could have committed a genocide for decades now and they haven't. And they haven't done that because they have been ruled by civilzed rulers who don't want do to others what was done to their own people by Germany and others in Europe. The leadership quality has deteriorated quite significantly in Israel recently.....

If you are committed to a two state solution, there is no need for genocide. When either side doesn't commit to such a solution, the only alternative is genocide, because they have already decided living together is a no go. Hamas and Hezbollah are all for it, as we already know. Looks like Israel is coming around to that viewpoint as well.

And while I will be very happy to be wrong about half of the population of Gaza dying, the apartheid state in the occupied territories will still continue. I guess it's better than genocide but am I just supposed to accept that as a solution? At least in the past the Israeli policy was a de facto two state solution with Israel controlling territories it wanted for itself or deemed necessary to control for their own security. The current government just wants to annex all of the west bank when there are millions of Palestinians living there now. What are their plans for them? Watch the video posted by Meclazine earlier if you don't know what conditions Palestinians live in where Settlers are moving in and unleashing terror on them. I cannot and will not sign off on that racist sh**t.

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I may or may not be right about the time frame, but I am afraid I won't be wrong about the final outcome. There seem to be plenty of people within this far right government in Israel that want to deliver collective punishment on the people of Gaza. These people have openly worked against a two state solution. So what do you think they want to do with the Palestinian people in the long term? They are the same as the people on the Palestinian side who also work against a two state solution because they want to kill every single Jew in Israel. Ben Gvir and his ilk would like to eliminate every single Palestinian/Arab in Israel and the occupied territories. Just because one side is full of far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy doesn't mean we have to support the other side's far-right bearded freaks who want to eliminate their enemy. And both sides include civilians within the umbrella of "enemy".

You DO realize that Hamas have continued to fire rockets into Israel this ENTIRE TIME, correct?

I know that isn't exactly the narrative, but how do you expect Israel to discontinue their air strikes when Hamas is still actively firing rockets.

Let me give you a quick lesson on how surface to surface artillery and missile strikes are conducted in the first world. This technology was widely used in the 90s, and can only have improved at this point.

When enemy combatants fire a sorty (rocket or otherwise) then computers and radar collectively identify the point from which it was fired, and immediately return fire before the projectile has even had a chance to touch down.

This is very similar to their Iron Dome technology, and was the basis for the Iron Dome defense.

In Gaza, Hamas largely employ improvised rockets made primarily with industrial plumbing pipe. These and their firing mechanisms are small and transportable. Hamas has spent the last 20 years building an underground command center and miles of tunnels. They use the tunnels to transport the rockets to places from which they will set them up and fire, very often amid civilian population centers.

When Israel detects the rocket fire, they immediately fire return sorties which are separate from the Iron Dome missiles intercepting the rockets.

Meanwhile, back in Gaza, as soon as they fire, the Hamas rocket teams are scuttling and pulling back into their tunnels, using standard mobile artillery tactics with the added benefit of the protective tunnels.

Apart from intelligence-specific strikes against Hamas leaders or troop concentrations, literally all Israel is doing is returning fire against the rockets.

I don't see how you can ask Israel to discontinue their return fire as long as Hamas continues firing rockets at them.

Not sure why you posted this in response to my post. I have no issues with Israel defending itself. I do have a problem with statements like “there are no civilians in Gaza”. I do have a problem with Israel denying food and water to the Gazans. I do have a problem with the apartheid state set up in the West Bank that is continually expanding with more and more settlers. Israel is stepping up its bombing campaign and we will see how it evolves. Looks like US diplomacy might be helping in ramping down the response by Israel. Hope it continues to force Israel to stick to a proportional response. They should have started by assassinating the hamas leaders living the good life in Qatar before bombing civilian areas in Gaza with white phosphorus.

Also do you have a source on Israel only bombing Hamas leadership or troops/ returning fire on the rockets fired from Gaza?

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Gaza's population has grown from less than a million to 2.4 million in the last 20 years, with Israel providing the bulk of their utilities and resources.

Partly that's because poverty with decent medical provision tends to lead to increased birth rates.

I'm not assigning causality, just pointing out that is the opposite of genocide.

The current leadership and especially the far right groups within it would do it if they could get away with it. Look at what they are doing to the people of the West Bank. Their goal is to annex all of the land of the West Bank and they aren't even quiet about it. What are they going to do with all the Palestinians already living there?

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Not sure why you posted this in response to my post. I have no issues with Israel defending itself. I do have a problem with statements like “there are no civilians in Gaza”. I do have a problem with Israel denying food and water to the Gazans. I do have a problem with the apartheid state set up in the West Bank that is continually expanding with more and more settlers. Israel is stepping up its bombing campaign and we will see how it evolves. Looks like US diplomacy might be helping in ramping down the response by Israel. Hope it continues to force Israel to stick to a proportional response. They should have started by assassinating the hamas leaders living the good life in Qatar before bombing civilian areas in Gaza with white phosphorus.

Also do you have a source on Israel only bombing Hamas leadership or troops/ returning fire on the rockets fired from Gaza?

Do I have an intelligence source within the IDF? Of course not.

I simply have an intimate knowledge of how this sort of warfare works, and the goals of both sides in the conflict.

Why would Israel intentionally target civilians when every civilian death is effectively a win for Hamas and Iran, placing pressure on Israel from the international community to stand down?

Hamas and Iran are actively sacrificing civilians in the belief that Israel will be forced into a cease-fire before they can remove Hamas from control of Gaza. It may work.

On the other hand, Iran would happily sacrifice every Palestinian in Gaza, as the more unrest in the region grows, the more recruits their movement will have, and the more influence they will be able to exert in their neighbors' countries.

They already have Hezbollah forces in Syria and Lebanon that are too numerous for those nations to control, and forces with effectively free reign in Iraq, outside the major cities. They have the Houthis in Yemen. They enjoy large followings in Saudi, Egypt and Jordan that they would love to similarly convert into military forces beyond the control of those governments, which force those governments to tread lightly.

This is simply my tactical assessment. Feel free to take it or leave it.

Multiple Israeli officials, including their President, made threatening comments implyng that they do not discriminate between Hamas and Gazan civilians. Then they started the bombing campaign with a bit of white phosphorus. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and they will focus strictly on military targets, which I understand are usually close to civilian areas and thus can cause civilian deaths if attacked. I am simply reacting to what I have heard from Israeli officials. There is a change in Israel in how they talk now versus how they did during the last intifadah, for example. Hopefully that is all talk and doesn't translate into indiscriminate bombing of civilians. Right now there is just not enough information to ascertain what exactly is going on in Gaza. Everything needs to be taken with a mountain of salt.

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The current leadership and especially the far right groups within it would do it if they could get away with it. Look at what they are doing to the people of the West Bank. Their goal is to annex all of the land of the West Bank and they aren't even quiet about it. What are they going to do with all the Palestinians already living there?

They are certainly due for a change in leadership, but look who's talking. Glass houses.

I will say that there was much hope for the 2 state solution early on. Every time a step was taken forward, Hamas would fire some rockets, or kidnap someone and it would be two steps back, and frankly, the Israeli response would often be exactly what Iran was hoping for...

I wish they could go back to 1948 and accept that solution. It was reoffered as recently as 2008, but that was a long time ago, now.

I have already stated in this thread that I completely blame Hamas and other groups with a similar ideology of "eliminate the jews" for the failure of a two state solution when offered by moderate voices within Israel. Unfortunately that has led to the rise of the far right in Israel that also doesn't want a two state solution. In fact the Netanyahu government helped prop up Hamas because they know it makes a two state solution impossible. Both extremes in Israel and Palestine need to be condemned for this as their actions led to the murder of 1500+ Isrealis on 10/7 and is leading to thousands of civilian deaths right now in Gaza.