India 2014 - Results

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The woman who's beating Rahul Gandhi in Amethi, Smriti Irani, is not your typical BJP politician in a lot of ways: besides being a woman (and prominent actress), she's a convert from Hinduism to Zoroastrianism. How many religious minorities are there in the BJP caucus?

But from the BJP point of view, Zoroastrians (as well as Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists) wouldn't really be considered minority religions.

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The woman who's beating Rahul Gandhi in Amethi, Smriti Irani, is not your typical BJP politician in a lot of ways: besides being a woman (and prominent actress), she's a convert from Hinduism to Zoroastrianism. How many religious minorities are there in the BJP caucus?

I'm surprised than Zoroastrianism still exists. I thought it disappeared during Antiquity.

Nah, the Muslims weren't able to totally eliminate it.

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http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standpoint-why-do-liberal-intellectuals-hate-narendra-modi-1989064

Posting this here because I didn't want to start a new topic. Please move it if you wish.

Interesting article. Even if you hold Narendra Modi personally responsible for the deaths of the Gujarat riot victims, why not hold the socialist politicians responsible for economic policies that have led to the death of countless Indians?

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Why did AAP do best in the Punjab?

From what I am seeing, congress did best in Hindu areas and BJP-SAD did best in Sikh areas. I do believe Hindus in Punjab are somewhat of a swing vote with a lean towards congress.

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http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standpoint-why-do-liberal-intellectuals-hate-narendra-modi-1989064

Posting this here because I didn't want to start a new topic. Please move it if you wish.

Interesting article. Even if you hold Narendra Modi personally responsible for the deaths of the Gujarat riot victims, why not hold the socialist politicians responsible for economic policies that have led to the death of countless Indians?

Sometimes, one has to accept that there may be radical difference in moral foundations between people. I think, we have reached this point. I am simply not willing to explain certain things. It is enough to simply state that we, probably, have very different notions of what is decent and morally acceptable with the author of that article - or with whoever finds it "interesting". I am, frankly, not interested. And, mercifully, at least in this case, I have nothing personally at stake here: it is not my friends and family who will be killed.

Malnutrition, illiteracy and poor access to healthcare are just as much of a tragedy as a riot that kills innocent thousands. Of course I also don't think Modi is responsible for the riot. If I thought he gave the orders for the riots, I would not be fine with him being PM. And to make it clear, I am more a BJP supporter (at least in this election) than a Modi supporter.

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The shock of the election is the loss of INC minister Sachin Pilot from Ajmer in Rajasthan. Young and popular, he was recently declared to have been the best performing MP in the country by a news channel. In fact, journalists often talked about him as a potential challenger to the Gandhi family for leadership of the party.

Nothing short of a massive Hindu consolidation could have unseated him. The BJP candidate was unpopular for allegedly favouring members of his own Jat caste over others like Rajputs. Both these communities dominate the state and have a traditional rivalry. A third pole of state politics is the Gurjars, of whom Pilot is a leader, but he has never engaged in this kind of ethnic politics. His success last time around depended on his reputation as a young and dynamic leader, and from votes from a wide spectrum of communities. Subsequently, he had done a lot of work in Ajmer, having got built an university, airport, hundreds of schools and institutions, and all other kinds of infrastructure. This is impressive to say the least.

So you will understand me when I say this result makes a mockery of the BJP's alleged developmental agenda. They generally present themselves as great unifiers, as wanting to transcend caste and ethnic divides by emphasizing development and economic growth. Here we have case of a performing MP being unseated by a mindless appeal to emotion. The BJP did transcend caste and ethnic barriers this time, but only because it seems that the Jats and Rajputs voted as Hindu's. They have won in UP and Bihar mainly because of this.

Hindu Nationalism 1
Development        0

This is an idiotic post, to say the least. Pilot lost because he was in the wrong party in this election, not because he supported development. I have no doubt that many great congress politicians lost because they were supporting Rahul Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi. Hopefully the good ones will gain their seats back in later elections while the rotten, old school socialists will be relegated to the dust bin of history.

The BJP did not win these many seats because of Hindutva, they won because the congress party lost. This election was caused entirely by congress. If they had actually followed Manmohan Singh's advice, the country would not be in such a bad situation and these election results would not have come to pass. Instead, they listened to the socialist nonsense of Sonia Gandhi. If Hindutva was so potent, the BJP would win every election, and we both know that is not the case.

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This is an idiotic post, to say the least. Pilot lost because he was in the wrong party in this election, not because he supported development. I have no doubt that many great congress politicians lost because they were supporting Rahul Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi. Hopefully the good ones will gain their seats back in later elections while the rotten, old school socialists will be relegated to the dust bin of history.

I did not equate his defeat with development. Don't put words in my mouth.

The BJP did not win these many seats because of Hindutva, they won because the congress party lost. This election was caused entirely by congress. If they had actually followed Manmohan Singh's advice, the country would not be in such a bad situation and these election results would not have come to pass. Instead, they listened to the socialist nonsense of Sonia Gandhi.

Sonia Gandhi does not run the economy.

If Hindutva was so potent, the BJP would win every election, and we both know that is not the case.

In the past, factors like caste have countered the BJP. There is very good reason to believe that BJP might have emerged as a natural party of governance of sorts in north India if not for the rise of Mandal politics. This is the opinion of quite a many BJP supporters. I do know that BJP is a big tent center-right party. As such, it has a number of supporters with diverse views, and you might be representative of such diversity. But, please don't pretend there aren't those types in the party who make use of sectarian politics. You might not like that side of the party. But its no good pretending it doesn't exist.

Read this: http://5forty3.in/2014/05/2014-the-election-that-challenged-dilli-and-still-emerged-victorious/

First of all you said that since Pilot lost (and JD(U)), that meant development lost and a BJP win meant Hindu nationalism won. That would have been true if it happened in a year such as 2009, when Varun Gandhi fought back a INC wave by exploiting religious tensions. It should be clear that this year, with this sort of mandate, the swing voter was voting for development, not Hindu nationalism. If they voted for the BJP because of Hindu nationalism, then why in 2014? Why not before? Do you really think BJP swept Delhi and Mumbai because the people there who voted for INC in 2009 suddenly wanted to express how Hindu they were? Has the BJP run on Hindu nationalism in this election or on development?

Of course the BJP has its crazies within it. I have never been shy about admitting that. Nor would I associate myself with the BJP on a regular basis. My ideal candidate would be someone like Manmohan Singh who has actually read at least half an economics textbook and isn't associated with a party whose base consists of anti-muslim rednecks. Unfortunately that is not what we saw. Manmohan Singh had no power and the inept Gandhis held all of it. They need to go. I don't think that the INC will come back to power until that is the case (at least I hope so) and they are replaced by younger members who have better ideas about development.

As for parties such as JD(U), I don't think their defeat indicates that the people voted for Hindu nationalism over development, they just voted for the party that they best thought could remove congress from power at the center. This was a national election, not a state election. I doubt the BJP could sweep or even win Bihar in a state election. People like Nitish Kumar and Patnaik are also ideal candidates in my mind, perhaps even better than Manmohan Singh since they have the experience of leading a state. Why not run them against Modi instead of a man child?

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The BJP did not win these many seats because of Hindutva, they won because the congress party lost.

Do you really believe the INC "lost" UP and Bihar?

Just to be more clear.

I mean to ask if whether it is really possible to say that BJP did not win UP and Bihar as opposed to other parties losing it? I don't understand how anyone can make such a argument.

The people wanted INC out at the center, and they voted for the party most likely to make it happen. Although UP is a slightly different case because of the Muzzafarnagar riots, the reason why the BJP won is development. I have not seen the BJP basing their campaign on Hindu nationalism in this election.

I will also add that one thing you mentioned earlier as a bad BJP policy, advocating for a uniform civil code, is an issue where I strongly support the BJP. Do you think that makes me a Hindu nationalist? Everyone must follow the same civil codes, as is the case in most other countries in the world. Are they all [insert dominant religion in country] nationalists as well? Would you be opposed to something like this?

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INC will recover.

BJP has a huge mandate and needless to say, also huge expectations now.

Oh, I don't disagree. The (electoral) danger of an absolute victory is absolute responsibility.

Which we in India might not get. A huge mandate could embolden the BJP to launch itself headfirst on contentious issues like article 370 and Muslim personal law.

Covermyeyes, this is what I was talking about when I said you were against an uniform civil code.

First of all you said that since Pilot lost (and JD(U)), that meant development lost and a BJP win meant Hindu nationalism won. That would have been true if it happened in a year such as 2009, when Varun Gandhi fought back a INC wave by exploiting religious tensions. It should be clear that this year, with this sort of mandate, the swing voter was voting for development, not hindu nationalism. If that was the case, then why in 2014? Why not before?

Pilot's defeat was pretty much Hindu consolidation. Jat + Rajputs vote for a Jat candidate at the same time? While a popular leader with easy access to central funds to lavish projects was available? I am not quite sure how familiar you are with politics of India if you believe that's anti-incumbency.

Do you really think BJP swept Delhi and Mumbai because the people there who voted for INC in 2009 suddenly wanted to express how Hindu they were?

Do you know who won in Mumbai? Shiv Sena. There is pretty much a secular urban left liberal vs the Shiv Sena types dichotomy going on in Mumbai. Of course, that alone would not account for a defeat. So I admit there could be a case of anti-incumbency as well that swung voters or inspired SS supporters to turn up in force.

As for Delhi, I did not equate the victory there with Hindu nationalism. It's pretty clear that INC voters (left-leaning urban middle class) have shifted to the AAP.

Has the BJP run on Hindu nationalism in this election or on development?

I am from Assam. I can pretty much and unequivocally give you the answer. A big fat yes. The entire BJP campaign was built on Modi, anti-Muslim rhetoric with disgusting code words like 'imports' (illegal immigration) and talks about how while Hindu Bangladeshi's are refugee's the Muslims who come over here are jihadi warriors out to islamamize Assam by stealth.

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So would you credit Sonia Gandhi, with no grounding whatsoever in economics, with India's greatest period of economic prosperity under UPA I? She being the real ruler and all. No. I doubt she ran the economy at all.

As for parties such as JD(U), I don't think their defeat indicates that the people voted for Hindu nationalism over development, they just voted for the party that they best thought could remove congress from power at the center. This was a national election, not a state election. I doubt the BJP could sweep or even win Bihar in a state election. People like Nitish Kumar and Patnaik are also ideal candidates in my mind, perhaps even better than Manmohan Singh since they have the experience of leading a state.  Why not run them against Modi instead of a man child?

This was pretty much an election where Hindu nationalism wiped out both JDU and RJD at the same time. There is practically no other way for that to happen without massive Hindu consolidation. That's plain political fact in India. How come we are even arguing that?

You are assuming that because more Hindus voted for the BJP, it automatically means that it was because of Hindutva. Yes, there would need to be some level of Hindu consolidation for the BJP to win, but that is just simple math since Muslims won't vote for the BJP. That doesn't mean it's because of communal reasons. Indeed, the fact that caste voting is not as widespread is a good thing, even if it is inconvenient for you ideologically.

You live in Assam so tensions between Hindus and Muslims are particularly high. But did the BJP create those tensions? If the BJP were to disappear tomorrow, would that be the end of communal tensions in Assam? Someone else would just take their place, like the AGP or even Congress if the opportunity presented itself. Don't think the Congress doesn't have blood on its hands. It butchered Sikhs in 1984 and Muslims in Mumbai in 1992. It is all about electoral opportunity.

The bottom line is that the BJP did not run a communal campaign this year. That is not why the BJP has got such a huge victory. The people who vote along sectarian lines do so every time. The BJP won this election on a promise of development alone. If they had ran on communalism, they would have lost. It can be great to fire up your base, but it doesn't win you elections.

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The people wanted INC out at the center, and they voted for the party most likely to make it happen. Although UP is a slightly different case because of the Muzzafarnagar riots, the reason why the BJP won is development. I have not seen the BJP basing their campaign on Hindu nationalism in this election.

That does not stand up to scrutiny.

You are going to have to justify this statement. The proof is in the campaign that was waged, which is public record for anyone to scrutinize. It has been a very moderate campaign by the BJP based on development, not sectarian strife. And they have been very inclusive in their language since their win as well.

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"not my friends and family who will be killed"... "the consequences" and "whatever happens"? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure why just because some riots happened 12 years ago anything like that's going to be repeated now. BJP was in power in the 1990's were they not, and there were no mass anti muslim pogroms?

All the posts about Muslims being killed are borne out of ignorance. They have got to be unaware of the type of campaign the BJP ran this year and are stuck on events that happen more than a decade ago. And if the BJP had to run this sort of campaign in order to get this huge win, why would they set about creating sectarian strife which will cause damage to the economy, and thus their re-election in 2019.

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"not my friends and family who will be killed"... "the consequences" and "whatever happens"? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure why just because some riots happened 12 years ago anything like that's going to be repeated now. BJP was in power in the 1990's were they not, and there were no mass anti muslim pogroms?

All the posts about Muslims being killed are borne out of ignorance. They have got to be unaware of the type of campaign the BJP ran this year and are stuck on events that happen more than a decade ago. And if the BJP had to run this sort of campaign in order to get this huge win, why would they set about creating sectarian strife which will cause damage to the economy, and thus their re-election in 2019.

By the way, I have never said it is just the Muslims that will be killed. Hindus have at least as much to be worried about. But, hey, electing an unapologetic mass murderer is good for development, isn't it?

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.

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Looking at the results in Kerala, the Congress led United Democratic Front and the CPI(M) led Left Democratic Front came in first or second in every constituency.

Except Thiruvananthapuram, where a BJP candidate pushed the Left Democratic Front into third place. What is special about Thiruvananthapuram?

Perhaps the fact that it is a city. It is also located very close to Kanyakumari which is considered to be a holy place. I don't know if that causes the locals to have a more favorable opinion of the BJP than the rest of Kerala. BJP outright won Kanyakumari as well.

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"not my friends and family who will be killed"... "the consequences" and "whatever happens"? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure why just because some riots happened 12 years ago anything like that's going to be repeated now. BJP was in power in the 1990's were they not, and there were no mass anti muslim pogroms?

All the posts about Muslims being killed are borne out of ignorance. They have got to be unaware of the type of campaign the BJP ran this year and are stuck on events that happen more than a decade ago. And if the BJP had to run this sort of campaign in order to get this huge win, why would they set about creating sectarian strife which will cause damage to the economy, and thus their re-election in 2019.

By the way, I have never said it is just the Muslims that will be killed. Hindus have at least as much to be worried about. But, hey, electing an unapologetic mass murderer is good for development, isn't it?

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.

Interesting. Coming so soon after posting an "interesting" link, that in any country, but India, would have been considered outright fascist propaganda.

LOL what the hell are you even talking about?

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Ag, the bottom line is that the BJP has nothing to gain from sectarian violence and everything to lose. So you, and the other ignorant fools on here, talking about massacres have no clue what you are talking about.

And you should stop lying about Modi being a mass murder since there is absolutely no proof of that. The only debate is whether he did enough to stop the violence or not. I can respect someone who won't vote for Modi because they felt he didn't do enough, but I can't respect someone who spreads lies and influences people whose only exposure to Indian politics might be this thread. There is just no reason to believe the BJP will cause sectarian violence at the center. If you actually think about it rationally and compare the demographics of Gujarat to India, you will understand why.

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"not my friends and family who will be killed"... "the consequences" and "whatever happens"? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure why just because some riots happened 12 years ago anything like that's going to be repeated now. BJP was in power in the 1990's were they not, and there were no mass anti muslim pogroms?

All the posts about Muslims being killed are borne out of ignorance. They have got to be unaware of the type of campaign the BJP ran this year and are stuck on events that happen more than a decade ago. And if the BJP had to run this sort of campaign in order to get this huge win, why would they set about creating sectarian strife which will cause damage to the economy, and thus their re-election in 2019.

By the way, I have never said it is just the Muslims that will be killed. Hindus have at least as much to be worried about. But, hey, electing an unapologetic mass murderer is good for development, isn't it?

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.

Interesting. Coming so soon after posting an "interesting" link, that in any country, but India, would have been considered outright fascist propaganda.

LOL what the hell are you even talking about?

That article you found so "interesting", of course.

Apparently you don't understand the meaning of the word fascist.

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Interesting article here.

Another pissed off socialist. I am not going to take an article seriously if it is against greater privatization of the "government". Government shouldn't be running things like airlines and phone companies.

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http://time.com/73176/india-elections-narendra-modi-bollywood-salim-salman-khan/

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Interesting read! But LOL in all fairness, Salman Khan is not someone who I'd be touting support from.

Haha fair enough. Although they did not vote for Modi, I think a lot of Muslims realize Modi won't be worse than the other options out there. It's not as if discrimination towards Muslims in India started with the BJP.

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Sbane, could you please stop hijacking this thread? This isn't the Indian equivalent of RedState: socialism isn't a slur and privatization is objectionable from the standpoint of many academic economists. We get it, you like Modi and hate the Indian left. You've made your point.

I am setting the record straight on what this election was about. It wasn't about massacres, it was about development.

Socialism should be a slur that has stunted the growth of India and has perpetuated poverty. Hell, the guardian article complains that the recent growth in India hasn't included poor people. How could it though with the restrictive labor laws that incentivizes businesses to stay small and disincentivizes large scale manufacturing that is required to really pull the greater population out of poverty. The only reason the tech revolution happened in India is because the politicians were too stupid to understand and regulate it.

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"not my friends and family who will be killed"... "the consequences" and "whatever happens"? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure why just because some riots happened 12 years ago anything like that's going to be repeated now. BJP was in power in the 1990's were they not, and there were no mass anti muslim pogroms?

All the posts about Muslims being killed are borne out of ignorance. They have got to be unaware of the type of campaign the BJP ran this year and are stuck on events that happen more than a decade ago. And if the BJP had to run this sort of campaign in order to get this huge win, why would they set about creating sectarian strife which will cause damage to the economy, and thus their re-election in 2019.

By the way, I have never said it is just the Muslims that will be killed. Hindus have at least as much to be worried about. But, hey, electing an unapologetic mass murderer is good for development, isn't it?

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.

Interesting. Coming so soon after posting an "interesting" link, that in any country, but India, would have been considered outright fascist propaganda.

LOL what the hell are you even talking about?

That article you found so "interesting", of course.

Apparently you don't understand the meaning of the word fascist.

I think, I understand it a lot better than you. But, I am afraid, you will have a chance to learn firsthand. Just never tell me, nobody warned you.

Thank you for all your warnings but if the BJP doesn't honor it's campaign promise and wages violence on Muslims, they will lose the subsequent election. Since the BJP campaign team is obviously more professionally run than the other parties, I think they realize this too.

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And West Bengal is frankly hilarious:

AITC +8.1
INC -3.9
CPI(M) -10.4

And BJP +10.7

I don't even think there were free and fair elections in Bengal. All the mafia groups that supported the CPM have jumped ship to the TMC.

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Interesting article here.

Another pissed off socialist. I am not going to take an article seriously if it is against greater privatization of the "government". Government shouldn't be running things like airlines and phone companies.

That's a pity because the article engages with the arguments that you've put forward in this thread.

Oh, I read it, even if it was highly painful. Mr. Mishra seems to be another one of those people who live in some sort of fantasy land and doesn't understand how the economy works. He argues against the reality on the ground that standard of living in India for most people has improved since economic liberalization which began more than 20 years ago. I also found it amusing that he seemed to like that everyone had access to cell phones, but did not mention that would not have happened without the privatization and deregulation of the telecommunications sector.

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Despite all the talk about removing the criminal element from politics, 186 members of the new Lok Shabha or 34% are facing criminal charges versus 158 in the previous dissolved legislature.  About 21% of the new members are facing serious charges like murder, robbery, kidnapping and inciting communal disharmony.  This is not a surprise as I am pretty sure the entire SS delgation must be facing charges on inciting communal disharmony.  9 are charged with murder and 17 are charged with attempted murder with a majority of them from the BJP, despite Modi's promises to cleanup politics.

Somehow I'm not surprised that the number has gone up.

Especially, considering that, as far as the new PM is concerned, murder is not a serious crime at all. I mean, if these people were charged with corruption - that would be another matter. But they were only killing, weren't they?

Will you be disappointed if the massacres you seem to hope for do not come to pass?

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Although until this year they at least ran a Sikh candidate (former international cricketer, television personality and one time murderer Navjot Singh Sidhu), rather than a Hindu party apparatchik.

That shouldn't be surprising. After all Sikhs are one of the most pro BJP voting groups.