Senate Bill: Let's Really Eliminate Farm Subsidies Act (Final Vote)

[Sbane]

I support this.

[Sbane]

I think we should try for a full elimination of the program.

I oppose your amendment.

[Sbane]

Nay

[Sbane]

Why is everyone so willing to help out farmers but then get all pissed off when a single mother who works 40 hours a week at $8/hour gets food stamps?

[Sbane]

Several months ago, the NE government passed a law that grants subsidies to farms if they meet two requirements: one, they have to be small, and two, the farmers have to develop a business plan or design a more efficient farming system in order to qualify for the grants.  If we're not going to pass a farm subsidy program similar to that, then we should find other ways to help small farms and their communities, rather than sweep their problems under the rug.

Atlasia has already taken a hit in its manufacturing sector over the past decade.  Let's not let the same thing happen to its agriculture sector.

Why is everyone so willing to help out farmers but then get all pissed off when a single mother who works 40 hours a week at $8/hour gets food stamps?

...I don't see anyone here who feels that way.

Well, Atlasia certainly isn't representative of anything.

Anyways, I agree with TNF. Agriculture lends itself to large agribusinesses. One of the reasons why American agriculture is so efficient as compared to developing countries is due to the large farms that abound here. And if the world followed that model, the world could be fed even with a much larger population. Of course that won't happen due to political reasons, similar to the irrational love of small farmers that we have in America as well. Anyways, I do not want to subsidize inefficient agriculture or large agribusinesses.

[Sbane]

If they weren't on the small family farm, they would be doing something else. We don't need to protect this dated image that we have and we should instead be focusing our resources where they are needed. I am in 100% agreement with TNF on this matter.

So, what is your plan to revitalize rural communities?  Or should we let them fall victim to the vast urbanization going on in this country?

What exactly is wrong with urbanization? It is merely due to how our economy operates. Why should we fight that?

[Sbane]

If they weren't on the small family farm, they would be doing something else. We don't need to protect this dated image that we have and we should instead be focusing our resources where they are needed. I am in 100% agreement with TNF on this matter.

So, what is your plan to revitalize rural communities?  Or should we let them fall victim to the vast urbanization going on in this country?

What exactly is wrong with urbanization? It is merely due to how our economy operates. Why should we fight that?

Because believe it or not, not everyone wants to live in a city.  I believe rural communities are still vital to Atlasian culture.  Instead of telling people to simply 'live with it,' we ought to find ways for people to continue living a rural lifestyle if they so choose.

Tmth, having worked on a farm before, can attest to the importance of keeping small communities economically viable.  But if the majority of our senators view those communities as weak and inefficient... not good enough to have a spot in your elite paradise... well, I think that's plain sad.  That's not the progressivism I've come to know.

I think we should help people, but we should not subsidize lifestyles. Helping people would include getting people more educated and better trained for today's workplace. But that would likely mean they would move to a more urban area for a job. And by urban area I don't necessarily mean a big city. It could be a small or medium sized city too. But it likely won't be a farm where your neighbor lives miles away from you.

[Sbane]

If they weren't on the small family farm, they would be doing something else. We don't need to protect this dated image that we have and we should instead be focusing our resources where they are needed. I am in 100% agreement with TNF on this matter.

So, what is your plan to revitalize rural communities?  Or should we let them fall victim to the vast urbanization going on in this country?

What exactly is wrong with urbanization? It is merely due to how our economy operates. Why should we fight that?

Because believe it or not, not everyone wants to live in a city.  I believe rural communities are still vital to Atlasian culture.  Instead of telling people to simply 'live with it,' we ought to find ways for people to continue living a rural lifestyle if they so choose.

Tmth, having worked on a farm before, can attest to the importance of keeping small communities economically viable.  But if the majority of our senators view those communities as weak and inefficient... not good enough to have a spot in your elite paradise... well, I think that's plain sad.  That's not the progressivism I've come to know.

I think we should help people, but we should not subsidize lifestyles. Helping people would include getting people more educated and better trained for today's workplace. But that would likely mean they would move to a more urban area for a job. And by urban area I don't necessarily mean a big city. It could be a small or medium sized city too. But it likely won't be a farm where your neighbor lives miles away from you.

But do you disagree that people should be able to live, at home, in an environment of their preference, be that a large city, medium city, or small town?

Call me an idealist, but I don't think the solution has to be all-or-nothing.

I think people should be able to live wherever they want to. That being said, I don't think society has any obligation to create jobs for them wherever they want. Also, there are jobs with big agribusiness, so it's not as if there are no jobs there. I understand they are not desirable jobs, but I don't see why the country needs to subsidize inefficient agriculture.

[Sbane]

We still don't have a GM, correct? A cost analysis on this if it were just reserved to small farmers would be extremely beneficial.

In my hometown, if we eliminated farm subsidies to small farmers, my town would completely collapse, as would thousands of other farming communities throughout Atlasia.

I wonder though, why do these communities support Republicans. And correct me if I am wrong, but it's not just because of social issues. They support Republican economic policies until it affects them. The poor people in urban and suburban areas be damned.

[Sbane]

We still don't have a GM, correct? A cost analysis on this if it were just reserved to small farmers would be extremely beneficial.

In my hometown, if we eliminated farm subsidies to small farmers, my town would completely collapse, as would thousands of other farming communities throughout Atlasia.

I wonder though, why do these communities support Republicans. And correct me if I am wrong, but it's not just because of social issues. They support Republican economic policies until it affects them. The poor people in urban and suburban areas be damned.

Too bad this is Atlasia, where welfare is much more prevalent than in America. If the government is to play such a heavy role, as most in here support, I don't see what is so awful about providing assistance to the farmers who need it, unless it's just a middle finger to those with different values.

There is nothing in this bill that prohibits social spending/welfare in rural communities. Why should we subsidize agriculture though?

Also in real life it is rural communities that give a middle finger to those with different values.

[Sbane]

We still don't have a GM, correct? A cost analysis on this if it were just reserved to small farmers would be extremely beneficial.

In my hometown, if we eliminated farm subsidies to small farmers, my town would completely collapse, as would thousands of other farming communities throughout Atlasia.

I wonder though, why do these communities support Republicans. And correct me if I am wrong, but it's not just because of social issues. They support Republican economic policies until it affects them. The poor people in urban and suburban areas be damned.

Too bad this is Atlasia, where welfare is much more prevalent than in America. If the government is to play such a heavy role, as most in here support, I don't see what is so awful about providing assistance to the farmers who need it, unless it's just a middle finger to those with different values.

There is nothing in this bill that prohibits social spending/welfare in rural communities. Why should we subsidize agriculture though?

Also in real life it is rural communities that give a middle finger to those with different values.

With the elimination of subsidizes, we are destroying rural Atlasia. Not only will countless farms be lost as a result, but thousands of small businesses will go under as we transition to an urbanized nation even more rapidly than before. A lot of folks would be negatively affected by this legislation - I don't think the reward of a little extra money in our pocket is worth the affect this will have on so many communities.

I think you are worrying a bit too much, but perhaps life will be a little tougher for the little guy out there. That is why I support education for those who want to go into another line of work (which doesn't necessarily have to require moving to a more urban area but in many cases will). There will still be agriculture going on, only on bigger farms and thus there may be more inequality. Keeping that under control with a high minimum wage and strict enforcement of labor and immigration laws is a more desirable option for me.

[Sbane]

Aye

[Sbane]

Aye I guess, but I don't like that we're trying to pay people not to work instead of subsidizing the work.

How are we paying people not to work? We should help them find new types of work and hopefully our unemployment system is set up to do so. Subsidizing inefficient work doesn't make sense to me.

[Sbane]

I don't object but there is something I would like to change. I would like to make it clear that the cap on unemployment benefits would still apply to farmers as well. So if they made $100,000 in 2014, they shouldn't get $100,000 in unemployment checks.

[Sbane]

I am proposing an amendment:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Sbane]

Assuming we aren't eliminating crop insurance, we would need to determine how much the government is going to designate for that, then go off the remainder to determine the first two clauses.

Do farmers pay a premium for that?

[Sbane]

I'm going to just go ahead and object. If farmers don't have to pay any premiums for crop insurance (though I could be wrong about that), isn't that just a form of subsidy? Although I will admit it's much, much better than paying people not to grow things.

[Sbane]

Nay

[Sbane]

Aye