2020 Labour Leadership Election

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, the trouble was that so much scaremongering at that time appeared to claim that *all* the new members were like this (as if there were hundreds of thousands of members of obscure Stalinist/Trot sects out there) The actual numbers were, as you say, never the problem.

[CumbrianLefty]

Not that it matters much anymore, but how many of the new Shadow Cabinet represent constituencies that voted to Leave? Given a majority of Labour seats, even after the 2019 election, still voted to Leave, I'd expect it'd be a sizable chunk (Miliband's seat for instance had a 72% Leave vote while he has a 6% majority).

According to the Hanretty estimates:

Remain:
Starmer (73%)
Dodds (67%)
Lammy (76%)
Thornberry (72%)
Ashworth (58%)
Stevens (68%)
Reed (59%)
Debonnaire (79%)
Gill (53%)
Murray (78%)
de Cordova (78%)

Leave:
Rayner (62%)
Nandy (63%)
Thomas-Symonds (61%)
Reeves (53%)
Healey (70%)
Milibrand (72%)
Reynolds (59%)
Long-Bailey (54%)
Philipson (62%)
Pollard (54%)
McMahon (61%)
Haigh (57%)
Griffiths (57%)
McDonald (66%)

14-11 Leave. Through, the average of the results is Remain 52%.

Smith and Vaz still listed as members as well?

[CumbrianLefty]

Thanks for that, I suspected that Lancaster/Fleetwood would be close.

(with the latter very much tilting things towards leave!)

[CumbrianLefty]

So Starmer wants to lead the party in a right-wards direction, disappointing but the left-candidate in the race was horrible so we're stuck with this.

I think a bit too much is being read into the junior appointments by some - in particular, with certain high profile right wingers its a case IMO of "now show that you *can* be loyal to things you may not totally agree with" rather than "I think the way you behaved in the last 5 years is hunky dory".

A challenge rather than a reward, in other words.

And it wouldn't be usual to give even junior posts to the 2019 intake this early, but given that they are significantly to the left of the 2017 entrants (never mind earlier) that is going to be interesting to watch in a year or two. Some may be given PPS posts now, however, so look out for that.

[CumbrianLefty]

Good tweet

https://twitter.com/steamedhamms/status/1248582883306078213?s=19

Its now become accepted wisdom amongst a swathe of online Corbynism that Starmer 1) said he wanted health workers to get medals off his own bat, rather than in response to a direct question from the Mirror - and 2) he mentioned literally nothing else. Neither talking point, of course, is actually correct.

Given the similar bad faith misrepresentation that Corbyn had to endure for 5 years, its ironic. And all the more so given that the man himself previously said he supported the campaign in question.

[CumbrianLefty]

And as we have seen with certain people since 2015, criticising a party leader for literally ANYTHING - fair or unfair, right or wrong - is absolutely drainingly exhausting and probably not good for your mental health.

[CumbrianLefty]

FWIW there was an expectation of something being done as a last act of defiance to stop Keir... we just expected it before he won

Maybe it was kept back in the knowledge that a Starmer win was pretty much unstoppable, and this is now an attempt to get him do certain things and not do others. Not picking Emilie Oldknow as the new GS (as has been mooted) for a start.

And frankly, the motives of whoever leaked this are secondary. It reveals, starkly and incontrovertibly, behaviour that should not be remotely acceptable to anybody who is not a subhuman sociopath.

Such people should never have been allowed to reach such prominent positions in the party.

They must never be again.

[CumbrianLefty]

I mean, laughing at Diane Abbott crying in a toilet after she had been subjected to the most horrific death and rape threats? What's the saying - "in the end, you will become what you most despise"??

[CumbrianLefty]

Starmer and Rayner have issued a joint statement announcing an inquiry into the leaked report.

[CumbrianLefty]

Lucy Powell isn't really like some of the others you have named.

[CumbrianLefty]

It is ready to change, just not in the way that you wanted.

Genuine question, though - do you find the sort of behaviour outlined in this report defensible?

At all??

[CumbrianLefty]

And some of us have trouble seeing Adam Wagner as a wholly reliable source tbh.

[CumbrianLefty]

the vibe I got from the leaks is grown up student politicians, which is to be expected. Not that I imagine the contents of other parties' groupchats would be particularly edifying material, but is it too much to want an apolitical party bureaucracy that isn't staffed by the spouses of MP's (freaking Phil Woolas's wife was in there, blast from the past) and union heavies rotating their guys out in turn?

That single fact is, on its own, totally astonishing.

[CumbrianLefty]

Should arguably have been done anyway when the report was leaked, but as ever that's pretty grim.

[CumbrianLefty]

Jennie Formby (one of the last signifcant holdovers from the Corbyn era) standing down as the party's Gen Sec - expect more factional skirmishing over her replacement.

[CumbrianLefty]

There is a section of online Corbynism who have been in a state of constant apoplectic fury about literally everything - however trivial it is in some cases - for the past month. As with the centrists who spent the previous five years in such a state, it must be pretty enervating and exhausting.

[CumbrianLefty]

There is a section of online Corbynism who have been in a state of constant apoplectic fury about literally everything - however trivial it is in some cases - for the past month. As with the centrists who spent the previous five years in such a state, it must be pretty enervating and exhausting.

I honestly think that it's because they've had 6-9 months of dissapointment; sh**tty conference, party pushed to a 'remain' stance, awful election campaign, suffered a huge defeat, none of their hereos ran for leader, they had an awful leadership candidate, got smashed, lost their NEC majority & had the shadow cabinet purged of the the SCG.

So much of it (something that was equally true of the People's Vote campaign) is around wanting a politics that is based on appeasing your feelings; they want an opposition that makes them feel good and reaffirms what they believe; so it should spend it's whole time calling the tories heartless, inept killers with blood on their hands (comments I've seen in my own CLP groups) The thing Corbyn was always really good at was making the left feel good; you see it on a much smaller form when people tweet out the GB speech of New Labour achievements (which in itself spoke to the 2010 labour position of listing a bunch of achievements that everyone agreed on)

People talk about how badly the right of the party lost there mind but I'm not sure if any faction has lost control of all parts of a party so quickly as the left have; from a quick think even the parts of the party still controlled by the left have surrendered (Scottish leadership, half the '19 PLP intake, ASLEF & other left unions) which has just left a rump on the NEC. They had complete control...

Whilst it has been a rough few months for the Labour left beyond question, objectively speaking it is still in a vastly stronger position than it was even five years ago. Some of them tbf do realise this, and know that once the grieving process is complete life must go on.

[CumbrianLefty]

That the "Bitterites" post-2015 (and in certain cases, during the Ed M era too) were often behaving in a way traditionally associated with the party's hard left did not go unnoticed, I assure you.

One thing you could always assume about the party's right wing, whatever else you thought about them, was that they put Labour winning elections above all else (almost painfully so, at times) Since 2015 it can no longer be assumed automatically this is the case, and the recent leaks only confirmed that. The headbangers amongst them would rather "be in charge" of a ruined rump party instead of compromising with a left that they despise and fear far more than their supposed Tory opponents.

*That* is maybe what has fundamentally changed.