Would you support the following HYPOTHETICAL peace treaty for the Russian-Ukrainian War?

[dead0man]

yeah, I'm one of the more "pro-nuke" people around and I don't think it's a good idea to give Ukraine and Georgia their own nukes.  Otherwise I would be fine with this compromise.  If Ukraine gets it's territory back and are allowed to join NATO, I don't give a sh**t who is in charge of the dying nation that is Russia.

[dead0man]

Disagree with all this "vengeance on Russia" stuff.

If they are eventually badly defeated in this war (and that is far from a given, it has to be said) they should be given the chance to join the civilised family of nations just as the Germans and Japanese were after WW2. Nations, just as with individuals, need carrots as well as sticks.

seems like we tried this once with Russia already and it didn't take.  I'm sure different people will have different opinions as to why that is, but my theory is that they were never properly beaten in a war.  Unlike Germany and Japan.

[dead0man]

Disagree with all this "vengeance on Russia" stuff.

If they are eventually badly defeated in this war (and that is far from a given, it has to be said) they should be given the chance to join the civilised family of nations just as the Germans and Japanese were after WW2. Nations, just as with individuals, need carrots as well as sticks.

seems like we tried this once with Russia already and it didn't take.  I'm sure different people will have different opinions as to why that is, but my theory is that they were never properly beaten in a war.  Unlike Germany and Japan.

Under drunk Yeltsin, Russians had shrinking economy, high inflation, and shortened lifespans.

under sober Putin, Russians have a shrinking economy, high inflation and shortened lifespans.  And a much weaker military than Yelstin.

[dead0man]

Disagree with all this "vengeance on Russia" stuff.

If they are eventually badly defeated in this war (and that is far from a given, it has to be said) they should be given the chance to join the civilised family of nations just as the Germans and Japanese were after WW2. Nations, just as with individuals, need carrots as well as sticks.

seems like we tried this once with Russia already and it didn't take.  I'm sure different people will have different opinions as to why that is, but my theory is that they were never properly beaten in a war.  Unlike Germany and Japan.

We tried, but maybe not as hard as we could have done.

There was rather a lot of unjustified and hubristic triumphalism after the collapse of the USSR.

well, we won.  Were we supposed to somber?  "we're sorry your authoritarian political philosophy failed, here's a lolly for your trouble."