opinion of straw bans

[dead0man]

from a fearmongering article about straws

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ya know, .02%...but it gets better

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it's good that the fearmongerers know that what they're selling is bull sh**t....it's weird that they keep pushing though, right?  If you want to get plastic out of the ocean you have to go to the source, and it's not modern western liberal democracies.  We know how to take care of our trash.

National Geographic

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[dead0man]

But not using a straw is easy and makes you feel good about yourself. Addressing waste disposal in Asia is poltical and complicated

but using a straw doesn't hurt anything if you put it in the trash when you're done and we're not talking about what lies an individual tells themselves to feel better about being alive.  This isn't about an individual choosing to give up a thing, it's about a govt removing a useful tool from the market for no good reason.

[dead0man]

I don’t think straws are a major problem threat for ocean life (Especially in the West were most waste is destined for landfill or incineration), but they are symptomatic of a consumer culture that encourages wastefulness that mos be tamed.

how would a ban help that?  Seems like it would be more likely to make "regular" people think they've done something about that issue, lets move on to different recreational outrage.  We need to ban....ummmm...lets go with Energy Drinks with vodka in them!  Won't someone think of the children, we must do SOMETHING!



Banning a thing you know won't help fix the issue it's ostensibly meant to help is mean spirited....at best.

[dead0man]

Never really felt the need for straws myself.  The adult sippy cup lids that will be the likely replacement for most uses will do the job for about the same cost and a smidgen less plastic.

not at Starbucks.  link

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[dead0man]

but again, plastic straws from the US are not what is trashing the ocean.  They make up a tiny fraction of garbage, and most of that garbage in the US ends up in land fills or a recycling center.  You want to clean up plastic in the ocean you're going to have to go after the fishermen and set up proper garbaging collection systems in the third world.

[dead0man]

but you've got to factor in the harm.  If it helps a tiny bit, but harms a lot, it's not really helping anything.

[dead0man]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

[dead0man]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

Taking away something people like is not really 'a harm.'

it is.

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and bitch about it the entire time.  Who do you think they're going to be bitching at?  Do you think this will make it easier or harder to pass future environmental things that, ya know, might actually do something good for the environment?  Unlike straw bans.

Isn't most of the garbage the west creates exported to the third world anyway?

I can't find any numbers, my Google Fu is weak today.  I would be shocked if that was the case though.  I know we ship a lot of recyclable stuff (or at least used to), plastics and paper and what have you.  We don't have the facilities to recylce it all.  They use it to make stuff.  There would be no point in having your trash shipped halfway 'round the world to be put in a hole.  You can dig holes in the UK and save on shipping.

[dead0man]

This article by the (Canadian) National Post's Tristin Hopper is a really good examination of both sides of the argument.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-truth-about-ocean-plastic-why-straw-bans-are-not-the-earth-saving-milestone-you-might-think

indeed, he hammers on the exact same points (ocean plastic isn't coming from the West, straws make up a tiny fraction of a fraction of trash, the ban will probably make things worse) I've been hammering on.  Except that the straw stats are almost certainly bull sh**t bit, I didn't want to get into that aspect of it as I thought it might derail the thread.

[dead0man]

FBs. Generally I'd be opposed to this, but I don't use straws, probably haven't since I was extremely young

how very BRTD of you



meanwhile, in SF....

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now that'f funny, I don't care who you are.  (except for people that work for Boba Guys)