Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[Franzl]

Palin just took down the "target list" picture with the crosshairs on the map.

Of course, it took someone to be really shot for her to remove this )

I would hope it's just basic human decency. Palin is stupid, but I'd hope she's not totally soulless.

One could ask why it was necessary to put up in the first place.

[Franzl]

It's disgusting to the point that I don't know what to say anymore.

Barbarians.
Palin, Libaugh, "true conservatives" : all barbarians. Go burn in hell.
And anyone who shares their beliefs belongs to them.
Poor country...

Rest in peace, proud woman who had the courage to stand for justice and progress. You belong to the right sense of history.

Everyone with very conservative beliefs is responsible for the act of one crazy? Idiotic.

[Franzl]

When, not 3 months ago, things like this were all over the TV, it's hard not to.

Yes rhetoric like that is extremely irresponsible...and yes, it does encourage crazies to act, at least indirectly, but to accuse everyone in political agreement with the Tea Party of being responsible for her (likely) murder is just unproductive, artogant and dumb.

[Franzl]

I may be a conservative but I do admire her commitment to aid the space program.

And why should anyone care about this, exactly, at this point in time?

[Franzl]

Former Governor Sarah Heath Palin (R-AK) and Todd Palin offer condolences to the Giffords' family.

Very ironic.

[Franzl]

One would think that it would be irrelevant whether you admire the person or not in this situation.

[Franzl]

I don't care if you don't like what I say. Those people are dangerous, they don't belong to a developped country. I'm fed up of having to "accept" their madness in order not to be called a hack.

You're acting a little hysterical here.

[Franzl]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry with this idiot:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

American television reporting is actually a sick joke.

[Franzl]

Sarah Palin can take her condolences and shove it. Her hateful rhetoric has endangered Rep. Giffords's life, and every other member of Congress. I hope both Palin is haunted everyday of the rest of her life by her actions partially leading to such an event.

Well, future (and the inquiry) will say if you right.
Honestly, if that is political, Americans should calm down, since you are acting like a African country, now.

Who is acting like an African country? One gunman? How can a single murderer act like an African country?

Do you people think at all before making these emotional comments?

[Franzl]

I'm perfectly calm, Franzl. I've just finally decided to stop making as if this rhetoric was normal in a civilized country. And anyone who thinks so is working for them.

Who said anything about whether it's "normal"? That's a completely different debate. Your accusations, though, are just absurd.

[Franzl]

I accuse teabaggers and ultraconservatives of being barbarians.
I accuse teabaggers and ultraconservatives of being a threat to democracy.
I accuse teabaggers and ultraconservatives of being a enemies of civilization and progress.
I accuse teabaggers and ultraconservatives of spreading hatred that lead people to be assassinated.
I accuse teabaggers and ultraconservatives of transforming America into a hellhole.

Call it absurd if you want.

Absurd, ignorant and hackish describes it, yeah.

Not to mention irrelevant to the situation at present.

[Franzl]

Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

The 2nd amendment isn't absolute, there are legal restrictions for certain groups of people, e.g. people with a history of violent crime, mental illness.

And I really don't want to turn this into a gun debate...but it's not as if a shooter necessarily has to have obtained his weapons legally...

[Franzl]

If I were her, assuming she makes a sufficient recovery, I'd tell everyone to f**k off and leave the public arena immediately.

[Franzl]

So the guy wasn't definitely left or right but the usual suspects are ignoring that to carry on their pet causes?

How unpredictable!

Pretty much, yep.

The German media is also following that line of logic (predictably). Is Sweden any better?

[Franzl]

I'm serious. It's one thing to have very different opinions. It's another to use this as a poltics as usual type of thing. Let's just pray/ hope for recovery.

The only reason why such a horrible action was made possible is because of the utter partisanship and the hatred campaign led by the insane right. Those who are trying to make as if there were no correlation are just burying their heads in the sand.

Look, hateful rhetoric (although I'm not sure very many truly hateful things have really been said) might encourage some nut to act in the way he did in this case...but someone as mentally disturbed as this person is basically a bomb waiting to explode at some point. It's really not a politically motivated killing in the sense that Giffords was shot because of certain votes she cast. Indeed, if the maniac lived in a different district...say a district represented by a Republican or even a Tea Party member..I see no reason to believe the attack would not have happened.

This guy hated government...authority...etc, and saw his chance to stick it to the man by shooting a member of Congress. I don't believe Gifford's party or ideology played a very big part in this.

[Franzl]

Palin? What on Earth does Palin have to do with this? Of all the rhetoric in recent times...I find it rather amusing that you single Palin out.

[Franzl]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

[Franzl]

I don't want to get political, but I feel I have to because i'm angry over the Tea Party's treatment of gun violence. Sarah Palin must feel guilty. She deleted her websites containing any incriminating quotes. She ran from this. Considering how cynical and pretentious she is, I doubt it was even out of bad taste - her first thought was probably how much it'd harm her 2012 chances. She obviously sees that she's in the wrong, or she wouldn't be scrubbing the evidence and I doubt she'll be encouraging gun violence again, any time soon. If this had been a school shooting, the kid who posted something like that on their Facebook - even if they didn't do it - would be in custody by now.

I'm glad i'm British. If we had a politician who was telling the public to not "retreat", but "reload" or a British equivalent, they'd probably have broken the law under the Serious Crime Act in quite a big way. They'd have been stripped of the party whip, at the very least (unless, of course, this is some BNP psycho, but that's another story). I doubt David Cameron's 2015 constituency target list would have crosshairs plastered over Wirral South and Bolton West.

I support free speech in almost every respect, but when it comes to telling people to go out and hurt another person (giving them a convenient online hit list and everything), it crosses a line. Even if this incitement is in jest, just to rile up your base... i'd find another political base to be honest, if that's what it takes for them to get excited about political discourse.

Nobody ever went even close to actually calling for violence against any member of Congress (or anyone, for that matter).

I don't know how Britain would deal with that type of language, I tend to believe you that they'd find a way to prosecute Palin or whoever for it (but that has more to do with the UK having very strict restrictions on freedom of speech, for Western standards). No I'm not saying the UK is authoritarian or undemocratic or anything....just that the UK does tend to take things very far in that respect.

In addition, there is no "party leader" in the British sense in the U.S. that anyone could throw out. Let's take Sarah Palin as an example. Sure, she's being treated as a possible 2012 Presidential candidate, but she has literally nothing to do with the Republican Party in any formal way. She's just an individual person.

Yes, in practice, she does have a good deal of responsibility, because lots and lots of people do listen to what the woman says....and she should think about avoiding anything that could be interpreted as violent in the future, but I think the Left is really really taking things too far with their crusade here.

[Franzl]

lying bitch.

ah, so this is the type of rhetoric we should be using to promote nonviolence. i see.

and what exactly does that have to do with violence? Actually, don't bother.

[Franzl]

even my parents, who aren't specially interested in nor informed about US politics, said that this was probably caused by those Tea Partiers, of whom they actually don't know much about, but whose extremism and hate has crossed the ocean and caused that many Europeans see the US as a radical, rightwing stronghold.

It doesn't exactly help that most of the European press is pretty strongly biased in favor of the Democrats (well...Obama primarily...Europe still loves him).

It almost seems like they try their best to present Republicans and the Tea Party as legitimately evil. (And before you say "well, that's true", that's an opinion to which anyone is entitled, consider that it absolutely isn't neutral reporting.)

[Franzl]

And what does that have to do with press bias? It's ok if the majority of people feel that way?

[Franzl]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

Of course not. Hardly anyone would dispute that, though....and the tragic shooting of Giffords certainly wasn't a case of that.

[Franzl]

It's not just about the Tea Party. If you (Antonio and Lewis) can't detect how disgustingly biased in favor of Obama the European press is. Just think about the reporting surrounding the 2008 or 2010 elections...

Normal news sources say stuff like..."Republicans won the House because Obama wasn't able to deliver on his promises fast enough (and only because of Republican opposition of course).

You can't honestly claim the reporting here isn't designed to create an Obama fan chorus.

[Franzl]

Very seldom did I ever hear anything about the practical problems of Obama legislation.

Take the health program (which I support given no alternative...but it's still irresponsible.) The only thing the European press bothers to tell people is that it gives so and so many million people insurance. Nothing about structural flaws. Nothing about it's complete lack of cost control. And so on.

I've never seen any reporting about what real problems Obama's legislation has...the press is just like a fan group, cheering for anything they can get.

[Franzl]

Ah, so you admit the bias?

The Republicans are a political party, and therefore by definition not meant to present things neutrally. The press is allowed to fire back, though, in your opinion?

And you're probably right about Europe's feelings towards Bush (which I might add are crazy...but that's not the debate), but is public opinion an excuse for biased reporting?

In addition, how many people came to these views BECAUSE of the way the press presented things?