Florida HB 1557 ("Don't Say Gay") gutted in settlement - now applies only to instruction on LGBTQ+

[Dan the Roman]

I think DeSantis might be almost single-handedly responsible for destroying any momentum that Republicans should've had in 2022, even more than the pro-insurrection people. He basically made bullying children and opposition to the First Amendment the 2022 Republican platform. I think that might even be more off-putting to most voters than the pro-life crap.

What ,

DeSantis won a massive landslide in 2022 and was polling showed this so called controversial bill to be popular

He did, but he won the massive landslide in an uncivilized sh-thole state. Of course Floridians who say the pledge of allegiance before bingo night are going to like this crap.

As for the polls, I don't know what to say, they're just f-cking fake. I don't know how many more polls need to be wildly off before we can write off this dreadful industry.

I think this is similar to SSM where views of a movement are different from views of an issue.

"Trans Activist" and now the very term "LGBT" have started to poll poorly not because people want X law, but because they are associated with corporate HR seminars that cause millions of Americans to suffer PTSD flashbacks.

As a gay man, I now have a viscerally negative reaction to the term "LGBT+" and especially things like "non-binary" or "two-spirit" because I instantly imagine an extremely annoying white woman giving a patronizing PowerPoint.

DeSantis conflated opposition to "indoctrination" in other words the limited reality and exaggerated perceptions of the corporate diversity HR industry setting their sights on public education as a future market, with actual hostility to gays, lesbians, or trans kids. But people never had an issue with any of them. It was with the grifters who charged exorbitant consulting fees under the guise of "inclusive programing" to design lesson plans or give presentations. When he stepped beyond it, support melted away.

[Dan the Roman]

Funny how your post includes neither, eh?

It includes both. What do you think “carry water for a party that hates you” means?

That is not a criticism of anyone's beliefs.  If you think my "take" on this issue is wrong, you are welcomed to offer up arguments to change my mind (or at least make me sound stupid.)  All you have done is show how ungracious you are to the idea that queer folks are diverse in their politics and lived experiences, probably because it is simpler for you to treat LGBTQ+ people as political props in service to an agenda.

Alright, I'll rephrase my post as a question: how can you, as a gay man, support the political party that is hostile to LGBT rights? Even if you agree with the Republican Party on every other issue, how can you not view your civil rights as the most important thing? I genuinely do not understand it.

He might believe in rights for L, G, B, and even T individuals but oppose any "LGBTQ+" specific rights or inclusion. I mean I fall into rhat category. I tend to believe LGBTQ+- refers to an ideological movement that is inherently anti Conservative and anti gay male because it is anti any male who dosent fit into a specific, leftwing, urban definition.  It's definitely anti large numbers of women, including Lesbians if they think sex is real. If Trans individuals dare to agree they are called "Truscum".

So no, why should he or I or any conservative  owe any loyalty to a movement or organizations which in their present form hate us? At least one side agrees on some issues.

But the error is assuming we agree on "LGBTQ+" labeled stuff

[Dan the Roman]

Funny how your post includes neither, eh?

It includes both. What do you think “carry water for a party that hates you” means?

That is not a criticism of anyone's beliefs.  If you think my "take" on this issue is wrong, you are welcomed to offer up arguments to change my mind (or at least make me sound stupid.)  All you have done is show how ungracious you are to the idea that queer folks are diverse in their politics and lived experiences, probably because it is simpler for you to treat LGBTQ+ people as political props in service to an agenda.

Alright, I'll rephrase my post as a question: how can you, as a gay man, support the political party that is hostile to LGBT rights? Even if you agree with the Republican Party on every other issue, how can you not view your civil rights as the most important thing? I genuinely do not understand it.

He might believe in rights for L, G, B, and even T individuals but oppose any "LGBTQ+" specific rights or inclusion. I mean I fall into rhat category. I tend to believe LGBTQ+- refers to an ideological movement that is inherently anti Conservative and anti gay male because it is anti any male who dosent fit into a specific, leftwing, urban definition.  It's definitely anti large numbers of women, including Lesbians if they think sex is real. If Trans individuals dare to agree they are called "Truscum".

So no, why should he or I or any conservative  owe any loyalty to a movement or organizations which in their present form hate us? At least one side agrees on some issues.

But the error is assuming we agree on "LGBTQ+" labeled stuff

Yeah, suuuuure the people who go “we want to have the same rights as straight people and be left alone to live” is an idea logical movement.

The actual ideological movement is the opposite men’s rights/groomer/rapist culture that proliferates online.

Online is not real life. Both sides online often forget that. The problem is that LGBTQ+ is an online ideological concept. It is not how people think of themselves unless they are already political.

This is not just an LGBTQ+ issue. Most modern identity politics, whether general, sexuality, or even racial, is an online creation which is politics invading identity rather than identity-defining politics.

[Dan the Roman]

I will add, I used to think like DT. I grew up in the rural south and for years I thought if I just am a well behaved pillar of the community people won’t mind I’m gay, but that just ain’t true. If you tried to be too visible, too open, you get shoved back into the closet. Even if you don’t people still call you a f@gg@t behind your back.

Respectability Politics are a myth

I think there is a middle ground. Just because conservatism in a society where gays are going to be 2-4% of the population(and bisexuality is always going to be a question how society relates to sex, rather than to homosexuality per se) is going to treat their existence as regrettable does not mean there is no place for a gay conservatism.

In a sense, the decision that gay culture and identity must conform to the left-wing paradigm is assimilationist in and of itself because it suggests that the wider spectrum has to be copied.

Someone like Harvey Milk could recognize the need to ally with the left without ever having to become a man of the left. It was a political alliance against a common enemy, but it did not require embracing socialism.

There is no particular reason so much of Gen Z LGBT online discourse, especially further down the alphabet has become intertwined with socialism/marxism.

In short - believing that the far-right are your friends is a delusion for Gay Conservatives.

But it is also perfectly legitimate to say that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, and I am not required to become them.

And it is also legitimate to do a cost-benefit analysis, eyes fully open as to who is a bigger threat. Because right now in many urban left-wing areas, the effort of far-left activists to takeover LGBT groups, and ban corporations, police, and now Jews/Pro-Israel folks from any participation in the community is a much greater day-to-day threat to a large number of LGBT individuals than what DeSantis does in Florida.

But that is not a reason to support what DeSantis does. It is merely a reason to possibly vote for Lee Zeldin in NYS or Hochman in the LA DA race.