Gay marriage ban upheld in California

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The people of California have spoken, and did not want gay marriage.

Should we have let the people vote on interracial marriage? Slavery? Segregation?

After all, as long as the people say it, it's perfectly okay, right?

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Wow, for once I agree with Vander!!

So, you see no moral issue with segregated schooling or busing?

Well, you stupid liberal.

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Wow, for once I agree with Vander!!

So, you see no moral issue with segregated schooling or busing?

Or, if homosexuality isn't actively chosen, you might as well say that blacks had the same rights -- to not be enslaved if they had white skin.  The only difference in the analogy is that one might be able to suppress their sexuality, but not skin color.  Otherwise, the moral parallel is pretty pure.

There is one BIG difference.  I firmly believe that being gay is a choice, not genetic.  I don't think I'm wrong, either.

Yeah, it's one hell of a ride. Who WOULDN'T want to be gay?

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I know all liberals will stop their ears when I mention a Bible verse, but I'm going to mention it anyway.

Genesis 1 says "And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness."

The verse tells me that, since no one believes God to be gay, that neither is man created gay.

You're right, Joe, i cannot deny the FACTS.  The Bible is 100% FACT.

My god, jmfcst has hacked into BushOklahoma's account. Someone get a moderator.

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Another gay Atlas member I never knew of before.

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BushOklahoma, Ill only say one thing:  How can anyone say w a str8 face that homosexuality is a choice when every gay person tells you that it is not?

Not every gay person.

It's not a choice, period. And it's really insulting that someone would seriously believe such a thing.

There is no way to be kind about this, and I know I'm just coming across as a one-liner in this thread, but there really is nothing to say about this. If you actually think someone chooses to be gay than I really don't have anything to say aside from the fact that I feel really, really sorry for you.

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I dislike talking about theories on sexual orientation because I always sound like I haven't a clue what I'm talking about and I articulate myself terribly but,

I believe we're probably all bisexual on some level though due to social conditioning in our more evolved stage as a species we've come to accept the black and white sexual definitions for those of us with dominant attraction to one sex. For the same reason I thought I liked girls when I was a little boy, I soon grew into my own to realize my attraction to guys as I got older. Sometimes it's not as simple for people, and it takes them decades to realize their sexuality.

I see no reason why one's attraction to the same sex couldn't show itself at some point in one's life (I keep saying your ) but for someone to think only along the lines of "straight vs. gay" and always having it, in their mind, one way or another.

This is all a messy matter I really don't have any expertise in whatsoever, and barely any knowledge, but the mind is certainly a complicated thing. I don't see any reason, though, why someone would consciously make the decision to just decide to date the other sex after they "got tired" of doing things the "normal" way. Then again, it could seriously just be a thing with women, since I've heard that sort of thing from an old friend's mom

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I honestly see no reason to make that point unless some part of you actually believes homosexuality is harmful in some way.

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I honestly see no reason to make that point unless some part of you actually believes homosexuality is harmful in some way.

I hate when people do this. God forbid you compare logic used in one case to logic used in another. He's not saying homosexuality is like alcoholism in that it is undesirable! He's comparing how people make choices with each.

I simply don't understand why he felt the need to bring it up. No one was making that point anyway, so unless he actually believed it was harmful, it wasn't necessary to compare it to alcoholism no matter the point he was trying to make.

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Phil I have no desire to bicker with you over something I have a genuine interest in watching, a discussion on sexual orientation. Please don't make this into something it doesn't have to be.

We were doing so well.

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    A sad day for liberty-minded individuals, though victory is something that is long in coming & we cannot allow ourselves to be discouraged by a few potholes in the road. Hopefully one day California will rejoin Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, & Maine in extending full marriage rights to homosexual couples.

What? The majority of people spoke and didn't want gay marriage. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not the court did the right thing by not going against the will of the people.

Cue the slavery, interracial marriage, and segregation arguments.

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    A sad day for liberty-minded individuals, though victory is something that is long in coming & we cannot allow ourselves to be discouraged by a few potholes in the road. Hopefully one day California will rejoin Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, & Maine in extending full marriage rights to homosexual couples.

What? The majority of people spoke and didn't want gay marriage. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not the court did the right thing by not going against the will of the people.

Cue the slavery, interracial marriage, and segregation arguments.

Race doesn't equal sexual preference.

You're making the argument that the will of the people should be unfettered, which gave us interracial marriage bans, sodomy laws, and segregation, among other things. According to your argument none of these things should have been stopped and left to the people to decide on at a much much much slower pace.

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    A sad day for liberty-minded individuals, though victory is something that is long in coming & we cannot allow ourselves to be discouraged by a few potholes in the road. Hopefully one day California will rejoin Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, & Maine in extending full marriage rights to homosexual couples.

What? The majority of people spoke and didn't want gay marriage. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not the court did the right thing by not going against the will of the people.

Cue the slavery, interracial marriage, and segregation arguments.

Race doesn't equal sexual preference.

You're making the argument that the will of the people should be unfettered, which gave us interracial marriage bans, sodomy laws, and segregation, among other things. According to your argument none of these things should have been stopped and left to the people to decide on at a much much much slower pace.

Did the people actually go out and vote on those particular issues? Are you aware that segregation was reviled by many localities in the south? Mainly because it hurt businesses and was a pain in the rear involving enforcement. And yes, I believe slavery should have been ended at a MUCH slower pace then what happened in the actual timeline.

Yes, and they voted to keep federal and local representatives in place that supported these policies.

When something like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6596687/) still happens in this day and age, I would be terrified to imagine what would have happened without the courts (or the federal government) stepping in.

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When something like this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6596687/) still happens in this day and age, I would be terrified to imagine what would have happened without the courts (or the federal government) stepping in.

The wording of the bill had more to do with the closeness of the vote then anything else.

Okay. You defend racist people and you said than slavery ended too quickly.
However, if somebody would legiferate on firearms, you would be the first to tribunal, to defend your liberties. Strangely, the liberty to be equal no matter your skin color or your sexual orientation is not important.
I suppose than liberties are only important when they have an effect on you.

If I was able to translate that I would respond to you.

I believe the gist of it is, "You're a selfish bigot."

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So, is California now less liberal than, say, Iowa?

Blame the minorities.

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Ok, so you're just going to be a moron, I get it. Thx.

Could you provide a valable argument on why sexual orientation should be placed at the same level as gender or race?

No, I don't think it's nearly as important, has less of an effect on an individuals ability to function, etc. I think the whole homo vs hetero thing is vastly hyped by the media in order to create a story. I personally disapprove of the act and think it's sinful but they should be able to do what they want behind a closed door.

As long as they stay behind closed doors?

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So, is California now less liberal than, say, Iowa?

Blame the minorities.

Don't. My boyfriend is a brownie, and so is his family, and they were all No's. Even his grandparents, and the grandma has and worships a statue of the Virgin Mary in their backyard(which is kinda hillarious). I take offense to that.


The two opposing lawyers in Bush v. Gore are working together to challenge this decision at a federal court, btw.

I wasn't entirely serious, obviously I have nothing against minority groups. But it's true that some minorities are more socially conservative than average

It simply disgusts me when there's ANY minority that opposes gay rights, because what we're going through is pretty much the exact same thing. Any minority that doesn't support other minorities deserves to have their rights taken away.

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You liberals keep ranting societal change, yet like Ive pointed out these changes have already affected marriage in a neg way.  Adding gay marriages is just another nail.

Such as?

Such as allowing people like Mike to marry.

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That was a very incoherent three-five paragraphs.


I do want some radical vanilla ice cream now though.

I'm partial to the plain vanilla gay.

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You said you live in rural Ohio, I don't think they have that flavor there.  I could mail you some from out West though.

PM for address

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Conclusion: I want gay Asian cake, Lunar should share

Get in line!