Pennsylvania 2010 - The Official Thread

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll say that this talk about Specter switching, while not all that serious right now, certainly shouldn't be dismissed. It's his only way of sticking around for another term. He won't win the primary and obviously won't win as an Independent. If he switches, he'd likely win the General and he'd give the Democrats their 60th seat. Just imagine the hell that would break loose.

And it's possible because, as we all know,  Arlen is all about Arlen...

Specter still votes conservative on some issues.  Would he pull a Linc Chafee?  Time would tell.  Hey, if he pulls a Jim Jeffords- great!

Specter may be conservative on crime and punishment, the war, taxes, trade, drilling, and gun control. But don't forget his liberal record on affirmative action and tort reform. These issues clearly make him a bleeding heart.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll say that this talk about Specter switching, while not all that serious right now, certainly shouldn't be dismissed. It's his only way of sticking around for another term. He won't win the primary and obviously won't win as an Independent. If he switches, he'd likely win the General and he'd give the Democrats their 60th seat. Just imagine the hell that would break loose.

And it's possible because, as we all know,  Arlen is all about Arlen...

Specter still votes conservative on some issues.  Would he pull a Linc Chafee?  Time would tell.  Hey, if he pulls a Jim Jeffords- great!

Specter may be conservative on crime and punishment, the war, taxes, trade, drilling, and gun control. But don't forget his liberal record on affirmative action and tort reform. These issues clearly make him a bleeding heart.

Don't troll here.

Flyers (who has a brain) will admit that Specter is a liberal on much more than that.

It's not trolling when you cite a source. It is trolling when you don't. You accuse me of dismissing issues and then post something like that. Try not going ad populum here too.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll say that this talk about Specter switching, while not all that serious right now, certainly shouldn't be dismissed. It's his only way of sticking around for another term. He won't win the primary and obviously won't win as an Independent. If he switches, he'd likely win the General and he'd give the Democrats their 60th seat. Just imagine the hell that would break loose.

And it's possible because, as we all know,  Arlen is all about Arlen...

Specter still votes conservative on some issues.  Would he pull a Linc Chafee?  Time would tell.  Hey, if he pulls a Jim Jeffords- great!

Specter may be conservative on crime and punishment, the war, taxes, trade, drilling, and gun control. But don't forget his liberal record on affirmative action and tort reform. These issues clearly make him a bleeding heart.

Don't troll here.

Flyers (who has a brain) will admit that Specter is a liberal on much more than that.

I'd add reproudctive rights/choice (somewhat) and labor issues.  Even trade he voted nay on CAFTA. 

Sure, while he voted aye on six other trade agreements.

[Marokai Backbeat]

He favors civil unions... like you do.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll say that this talk about Specter switching, while not all that serious right now, certainly shouldn't be dismissed. It's his only way of sticking around for another term. He won't win the primary and obviously won't win as an Independent. If he switches, he'd likely win the General and he'd give the Democrats their 60th seat. Just imagine the hell that would break loose.

And it's possible because, as we all know,  Arlen is all about Arlen...

Specter still votes conservative on some issues.  Would he pull a Linc Chafee?  Time would tell.  Hey, if he pulls a Jim Jeffords- great!

Specter may be conservative on crime and punishment, the war, taxes, trade, drilling, and gun control. But don't forget his liberal record on affirmative action and tort reform. These issues clearly make him a bleeding heart.

Don't troll here.

Flyers (who has a brain) will admit that Specter is a liberal on much more than that.

I'd add reproudctive rights/choice (somewhat) and labor issues.  Even trade he voted nay on CAFTA. 

Sure, while he voted aye on six other trade agreements.

Dude, I was just pointing out one thing.  Not like I love Arlen Specter, but his record is nearly dead center on both issues.  Just the facts, man!

So I'm having trouble understanding. If he votes in favor of six trade agreements, and votes against one, he's a centrist?

[Marokai Backbeat]

He favors civil unions... like you do.

Uh...ok? Do you realize why you're terrible at debating yet?

I forgot I have to explain everything to you. The point is that he has a liberal social position that you also yourself hold. I understand you strongly dislike Arlen Specter but don't lump in liberal positions that you yourself agree with as more evidence of why he is dangerously "liberal."

[Marokai Backbeat]

Say Phil, great signature! 

Yet he accuses others of having the obsessions..

[Marokai Backbeat]

I have no interest in getting into another round with you and listening to everything you have to throw at me, Phil. I was simply remarking on the amusing fact that you accuse others of obsessive behavior while obsessing over a politician for years now.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I find it amusing how you're one of the least Republican Republicans on this site but you talk like you're a slightly more intelligent Sean Hannity.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I find it amusing how you're one of the least Republican Republicans on this site but you talk like you're a slightly more intelligent Sean Hannity.

How so?

You're not really a Conservative Republican or a hysterical Neoconservative. You're pretty moderate and honestly could pass as a Democrat, yet you act fairly partisan. "The media" praising "Obama's magic wand" is a fairly partisan Republican statement in my opinion, not to mention engaging in neoconservative-esque nonsense that the New Deal was a failure, the stimulus is worthless, etc. You score and seem so moderate and yet you talk like Boehner.

Not that I'm insulting you, I'm just surprised that you use such Rovian terms for things.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Funny enough, Republicans and Independents are against it while Dems are for it.

-GASP- SECRET DEM[/hysteria]

[Marokai Backbeat]

Funny enough, Republicans and Independents are against it while Dems are for it.

-GASP- SECRET DEM[/hysteria]

Or my point is that it's amazing how he isn't winning Independents but wins Dems in a General against another Democrat.

Enough with your damn trolling. You're really annoying. Don't like the discussion? Don't post here. Bye.

I just don't see the point in focusing on "Look guys at how much the Dems like this guy!" So what? Does that mean he's a liberal or something? I don't see the point in constantly bringing that up.

I'm not trolling, though honestly it can easily come across that way because I've lost the interest in actually trying to get through to you. You're just a more grounded and coherent Coburn in 2012 with a tens of thousands of posts that somehow gained you a perverted sense of seniority. With every post you bring a new sarcastic comment, a new insult, a new dismissal, and you're insistent on making sure you get the last punch.

As for my not liking the discussion, It's not that don't like it per se, I just get irritated at the "OMG NEW ANTI SPECTER NEWS ITEM" every other day. For someone who so eagerly reminds me and others we have a year and ahalf to go until 2010, you seem perfectly fine with going on and on about Specter ad nauseum.

[Marokai Backbeat]

What do you think the point is? The man trails among Independents and Republicans but is winning among members of the opposite party over their own party's candidate. It's an observation. I'm not doing the stupid "Is he a liberal?" debate with a stubborn pain in the ass like yourself again.

It's not an 'observation' it's a clear 'implication.' You may as well have just came out and said "Dems love him because Specter is a flaming liberal!" There was no other point to that post unless you were just stating the obvious, which is basically what this entire discussion has become at this point.

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I'm exhausted with you sometimes, but not really trolling you. I know a lot of trolls and they've told me I'm a pretty bad one.

But in all seriousness, no I'm not trolling you. My point was that any citation of his record or any pointing to your own mistakes on what Specters record actually was was just flat out ignored in favor of insults and sarcastic commentary and you basically telling me to go stand in a corner. There's no point in having a debate if you're not actually willing to listen.

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Honestly I completely forgot I made a post in this thread. I was just reminded of it a few moments ago when I checked to see updates on the race.

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On the contrary, I'm very interested in this race. The problem is you've cornered the discussion with this thread to the point to where any other thread becomes redundant. (This is the "Offcial Thread" afterall.)

You've turned this into the Official I Hate Arlen Specter HQ/Megathread and because of the fact that you don't like me, if I make any comment in here you'll automatically respond to it, being the author of the thread, with "there you go again"s.

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Well that's my point, this thread is basically beating a dead horse until mid-2010. Arlen Specter is unpopular among Republicans, we know, Pat Toomey is a Conservative's wet dream, we know that, Arlen Specter looks weak in the primary matchup, we know that. What more is there to say except rehashing the old arguments over and over again?

For those who were too lazy to read all that, here's the Phil response in a summary:

stubborn pain in the ass like yourself

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[Marokai Backbeat]

Phil,

MB is a troll.

You got that right.

So, Sam is right, don't let him get you upset.

Anything I say here is going to be interpreted in the worst possible light, so I'm just going to make this as short as possible and as uninsulting as i possibly can.

I'm not a troll. And I don't want to say Phil is, either, honestly. I know both of us have tempers, and I know both of us get into fights and say things we don't mean. And I've talked to Phil privately and offered to make apologies here if that's what it took to just stop this fight.

I don't seek fights. But Phil and I have had alot of fights on and off this forum, and any post I make around here could be interpreted by him as some personal affront. I just want it known that that's rarely, if ever, my intention. I'm only human, so I make snide comments from time to time, sue me.

But I want it known, to you, Carl, to you, Spade, to you, Phil, and to anyone else. I'm happy to have any discussion on any topic of your choosing. This manufactured "feud" between Phil and I notwithstanding, I'm actually a fairly thoughtful and active member of this site that does contribute good content.

That is all.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Arlen, you naughty boy.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Could someone please explain to me why Specter is a goner in the primary?  I know he only won by 2% in 2004.  What has changed since then?

The first thing that pops off the top of my head is the fact that alot of Democrats now are Republicans that bailed during the 2008 campaign season. Dems racked up alot of registration numbers all over the country and alot of those numbers came from former Republicans. With the primary being, as far as i know, closed/semi-open, it makes the primary electorate alot more Conservative.

[Marokai Backbeat]

With the primary being, as far as i know, closed/semi-open, it makes the primary electorate alot more Conservative.

We have a totally closed system. Yet another reason why Specter is finished. He tried to get the state legislature to allow Independents to vote in the primary. It went no where because 1) the Dems don't want to help Specter win his primary as a Republican and 2) the Republican members (of the State Senate especially) don't want Specter this time around.

Thanks, I didn't know if it was completely closed or not. I just knew Dems couldn't participate.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm watching his news conference on MSNBC. He's basically called the Republicans far-right going back to 2004. He also said that he "wouldn't allow" the Republican primary electorate to "stand in judgment" of him.

He also admitted to receiving promises from the President and other Democrats that he would be supported over other Dems if he switched.

[Marokai Backbeat]

isn't it funny that Arlen ran for president in '96

I feel a timeline coming on

[Marokai Backbeat]

1996 memo
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14804306/The-Arlen-Specter-Memo

This sort of stuff seriously does tempt me to writing a timeline.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Netroots starting to get grumpy:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/4/727577/-Specter-against-key-part-of-health-care-reform-plan

Can Specter please support just one thing in it's entirety? For goodness sakes.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Arlen's a true moderate, he pisses everyone off.

[Marokai Backbeat]

It's pretty bad when people are stealing the ideas of Rush Limbaugh.

[Marokai Backbeat]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0509/Poll_Specter_beats_Toomey_5333.html

Down 20% (name recognition's an issue here), Specter over 50%

Gotcha, I'll delete my post then! It's difficult to follow all the PA comments here

[Marokai Backbeat]

Toomey raises $500k in 20 days.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/eyeon2010/2009/05/toomey-raises-halfmillion-for.html

Not surprising. This race will probably shape up to be the most expensive of 2010.