Welfare Reform Bill 2009 (On the President's Desk)

[Marokai Backbeat]

I have never been a fan of Section 3, nor will I ever be voting for this bill so long as it includes it as it presently stands.

[Marokai Backbeat]

How would 20 hours of job searching and interviews possibly be enforced, anywho?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'd like the community service provision removed entirely, to be honest.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'd like the community service provision removed entirely, to be honest.

I assume that would still retain the requirement to essentially look for a job and/or undertake vocational training?

Well we'd have to find some way to ensure those requirements are being upheld, and I'm not quite sure how we could enforce that, but sure I have no problem with making sure that people are looking for a job as a requirement to unemployment compensation or public assistance in general if unemployed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I understand that we need to have strings attached to public assistance money, but we need to be realistic and fair in these restrictions, and not make people to sit in a class all week or pick up trash just to get a check. We need to take care that we don't set up ridiculous standards that force people to go through an obstacle course just to get some relief.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I understand that we need to have strings attached to public assistance money, but we need to be realistic and fair in these restrictions, and not make people to sit in a class all week or pick up trash just to get a check. We need to take care that we don't set up ridiculous standards that force people to go through an obstacle course just to get some relief.

On the other hand, we can't just give people checks and let them sit around watching soap operas and Dr. Phil all day.

Well true, but with all due respect, we can't assume that's the norm and that's why we need to make people jump through hoops to get the assistance. Time limits and making the welfare payments a very basic amount encourage actually getting a job, not just arbitrarily increasing requirements.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Yuck, nay.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Proposal: Section 3 is eliminated, and remaining sections re-numbered accordingly.

I will not be supporting Hash's amendment either, for what it's worth.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

This is really the first recession in years that has affected all sectors of the economy as such getting a trade or skill would not guarrentee people employement.

For now I will support Marokai's amendment.

I am willing to scrap Section 3 if it helps retain and move forward the rest of this bill.

Yet I am a little uncomfortable having no requirements at all. I would prefer to have it require people apply at two places per week or something like that.

I don't like the idea of forcing people to apply for a job at all. If there's no jobs, or very low paying jobs, we're essentially forcing people backwards on the income scale (and all the consequences that come with that) or threatening to cut of all assistance.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This amendment is really, really, really gross. I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind would imagine this working out fine and dandy in the real world.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nay, this is a fantasy, it would never actually work under the best of scenarios.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I like this Senate's legislative skill. Nay to lowering/tinkering, Nay to altering the two to compensate the other, Nay to abolishing it.

What do you people want?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nay

How many people here have any experience (even second hand will do, frankly) of a welfare system? How many have any academic (for want of a better term) knowledge of the subject? How many have, hah, even a decent general knowledge of it?

I'm just curious, that's all.

Myself and my family do, and I believe NCY does as well. I can tell you all these ridiculous restrictions, no matter how you pretty them up, will not go over well. You restrict, or further stigmatize, public assistance and discourage people from getting it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I've given up on this piece of.. legislation.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This bill is garbage, Nay.

I'm sad that election season distracted everyone from actual legislating.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I hope we can work on Amendments to this again in the next session since apparently the entire Senate went on a vacation in this last week or so.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I hope that we can just let this veto stand and then re-do this bill in the next session. No one really likes this bill and there's a fair bit we should change.