Worst US State

[MarkDel]

I'd rather live in Camden than any wealthy suburb. I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE suburbia.

BetterRed,

If you lived in Camden you'd end up as somebody's Prison Bitch...it's a scary place.

[MarkDel]

Crime in Camden (2002):

33 murders (40.5 per 100,000)
45 rapes (55.2 per 100,000)
607 robberies (744.1 per 100,000)
797 assaults (977.0 per 100,000)
1,155 burglaries (1415.9 per 100,000)
2,407 larceny counts (2950.7 per 100,000)
1,081 auto thefts (1325.2 per 100,000)
City-data.com crime index = 821.1 (higher means more crime, US average = 330.6)

Crime in Tampa (2002):

37 murders (11.7 per 100,000)
204 rapes (64.3 per 100,000)
2,334 robberies (735.5 per 100,000)
3,714 assaults (1170.4 per 100,000)
6,283 burglaries (1980.0 per 100,000)
16,088 larceny counts (5069.9 per 100,000)
6,720 auto thefts (2117.7 per 100,000)
City-data.com crime index = 1048.8 (higher means more crime, US average = 330.6)

BetterRed,

I give you credit, that is an excellent use of misleading statistics. You have been able to tell a lie while also technically posting factual data. That's kind of like Clinton's "sex definition" word game.

However, let's examine what you posted in greater detail. Notice the MURDER RATE in the two cities...not the raw total number of murders, but the murder rate per capita. Camden has 40.5 murders per 100,000 people, while Tampa has just 11.7 murders per 100,000 people, meaning that you are nearly four times more likely to be murdered in Camden than in Tampa.

As for the other numbers, the Tampa totals are inflated by the difference in "police tactics" in the two cities. In Tampa, the cops charge you for everything (notice the huge disparities in larcency and assault) that even resembles a crime, while the police in Camden are just happy to make it home alive at the end of the night. This is a COMMON scenario in many major cities where the only REAL emphasis of the police is murder and drugs, and your crime stats do not include drug offenses. Also, the inhabitants of a place like Camden are far less likely to report crimes, especially those that don't result in a hospitalization. Yet another factor is the containment of criminal behavior to relatively isolated areas. In Tampa, the vast majority of the crime is limited to one really awful section in the inner city, and the events there almost never spill over to the community at large, but in Camden, even the so-called "nice areas" need to have gaited communities with armed security. The difference is that with aggressive police work, the crime is contained in Tampa, but in Camden, with whiny left wing politicians running the show, the crime spreads to the othe areas of the city.

As someone who has spent a decent amount of time in the two places, there is absolutely NO comparison. In Tampa, you're fine as long as you avoid one area, while in Camden, you SEEK OUT the rare safety zones.

[MarkDel]

Massachusetts. Hands down.

John,

Yes, Massachusetts would be my worst nightmare. Rhode Island and Maine would be pretty bad too.

[MarkDel]

Most people who say jersey sucks are

1. people who've never been there and just listen to what comics say about it.  

2. people from NY who've seen nothing more than the trashy area near NYC.....like those comics I was just talking about.  

Yes, Camden, Trenton, Newark and the immediate surrounding areas are absolute sh*tholes.  But the rest of the state is about the nicest from of suburbia you can find.  The NJ shore, along with LBI is awesome, and much cleaner than it used to be.  C'mon, everytime the "mpst livable" rankings come out for all the states, NJ is usually around #10, so give it a rest, NJ is not near as bad as you think.  

AS for this question, why are you putting all your "political oppposition states".  C'mon, all you republicans know Massachusetts is not the worst place to live in the US,  and I know Utah isn't.  Worst place is probably.....well, Texas.  Hot, muggy, trailer parks, home the Dallas Cowboys, smells like @$$, frickin annoying accents....what's to like about the place?  Best place? NC, baby.  OBX is the sh*t.  

Hockey Dude,

While we don't agree on much, we are 100% on the same page when it comes to New Jersey.  Yeah, the state has some really awful places (Camden, Newark, etc...) but the rest of the state is just AWESOME, and I would know since I went to college there, and also lived near Jersey for a large chunk of my life.

As for your point about politics playing a part in where you would want to live, I think that has to be a factor, but there are PLENTY of reasons why I hate Massachusetts that has nothing to do with politics.

[MarkDel]

Hockey Dude,

Massachusetts dislikes...

Taxes, rude arrogant people, weather, traffic, Red Sox fans, ugly area except part of Boston and politics. I've been there many times and I truly despise Massachusetts. I love New Jersey though...

[MarkDel]

Parts of central Jersey are very nice.  Atlantic City is great if you never leave the Boardwalk.  The whole place is slowly getting better too.

The problem is the bad parts are really, really bad.  And no one seems to keen on fixing most of them.

Tredrick,

You are right about the bad parts of New Jersey. And yes, no one from either party has done anything to substantively address the issue. But living in most parts of the state is really great.

[MarkDel]

Massachusetts. Hands down.

John,

Yes, Massachusetts would be my worst nightmare. Rhode Island and Maine would be pretty bad too.

Ah, Maine's a great state, especially the coast.

If you're talking about politics, Maine isn't that left-wing, heh. A little quirky, but not ultra left-wing.

Nation,

I know it's not all that left wing. In fact, I think the overall politics of Maine defies description within the normal definitions of American political ideology. And that's part of the problem, people are TOO DAMN WEIRD up there. I always feel like I'm in another country or an episode of the Twilight Zone when I'm in Maine...LOL...plus I hate the ing snow...I saw enough of that for a lifetime where I grew up.

[MarkDel]

Mr. Fresh,

The funny thing is this....if you or I had said, "I don't like Detroit because it's filled with all of those crazy MUSLIMS" can you imagine the reaction of the Left Wingers?

It's OK for them to make fun of Christian-based religions and call them all sorts of names, but they enforce political correctness in all other areas.

Hypocrisy 101...

[MarkDel]

Mr. Fresh,

The funny thing is this....if you or I had said, "I don't like Detroit because it's filled with all of those crazy MUSLIMS" can you imagine the reaction of the Left Wingers?

It's OK for them to make fun of Christian-based religions and call them all sorts of names, but they enforce political correctness in all other areas.

Hypocrisy 101...

Amazingly, you are completely right.  I just read something where a City Council in South Carolina can't open with a prayer mentioning Jesus, yet I bet they could do the same mentioning Allah.

Yep. In Palm Beach, the city council refused to allow Christians to put up a nativity scene at their place of business, yet the CITY ITSELF had expressions of the Jewish and Islamic faith specifically placed on city property!!!

[MarkDel]

Mr. Fresh,

Well, I can't imagine a left winger would last too long in politics in Idaho. I had the good fortune of getting to know one of your Senators, Larry Craig, when I used to work on Capitol Hill. He was just a Congressman then, but he was one of the nicest, most down to earth (and really conservative) guys I met while I worked in Washington.

[MarkDel]

I never got to meet Crapo, but I understand he's a very good guy as well.

[MarkDel]

Crapo is awesome, btw, why did you work on Capitol Hill, it's awesome that you did.    

Why or when?

[MarkDel]

Crapo is awesome, btw, why did you work on Capitol Hill, it's awesome that you did.    

Why or when?

Let's go with both.

My first job out of college was as a Legislative Assistant and Press Secretary for Congressman James Walsh (R-NY), and after that I worked for the Republican National Committee. When I was younger, I thought I wanted a career in politics...I changed my mind in my late 20's.

[MarkDel]

Freedom Burns,

Rude in Idaho? No way. Perhaps quick to judge, or narrow minded, but not rude. If you mind your own business, people there won't think twice about you, they'll just go about their own business.

[MarkDel]

Well, I can only speak from experience.  They were nice enough to me when I was there, but extremely rude to every person of color that I have spoken to who passed through or lived there.  I can't cotton with that kind of attitude.  Boise is the worst.  I can tolerate anything except intolerence.  I am only prejudiced against predjudiced people.

freedomburns

I understand, you won't tolerate those who won't tolerate...ok, so logical coherence isn't a strong suit of the modern left...LOL

I'm just kidding...I understand your point, and if true, I would have a big problem with it as well.

[MarkDel]

For the record, this is the current legal standard on nativity scenes. A government entity can display a nativity scene if placed within a secular context of Christmas being a national holiday, and does not imply endorsment of religion. This was decided in the case of Lynch v. Donelly, 5-4 (O'Connor, Rehnquist, Burger, White, and Powell in the majority, Brennan, Marshall, Blackmun, and Stevens in dissent). The Court has further clarified this rule by forbidding the display of a creche it felt to be too religious. This particular creche was ungarnished by any secularizing periphery, as the creche at issue in the Lynch case was, but did have a banner over it reading "Gloria in excelsis deo". This display was held to be unconstitutional in the case of Allegheny County v. ACLU (O'Connor, Brennan, Blackmun, Marshall, and Stevens in the majority, Rehnquist, White, Kennedy, and Scalia in dissent).

My personal position is a categorical opposition to these displays. I believe that we honor the tradition of freedom by keeping our government out of religion, and allowing it to be a matter left to the dictates of our own consciences, and not make pariahs out of certain members of the political community with such aggressive displays of Christianity.

Migrendel,

That's a nice lesson in Con Law, but it actually has nothing to do with what the situation was in Palm Beach. They were excluding Christian displays while openly endorsing and promoting Jewish and Islamic displays...surely you would not agree that it's OK to promote one religion over another?