What mainly caused the Civil War?

[War on Want]

This is in response towards DWTL saying that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery, when its main cause dealed with the divisions slavery caused in our country and this led to the South crying out about "state's rights".

[War on Want]

Slavery, without it there wouldn't have been anything big enough to cause a civil war though "state's rights".

[War on Want]

slavery was certainly the cause of the spat.

but any good war needs propaganda.

imagine youre a peckerwood yeoman southern farmer. a planter comes to you and says,'you know i really like haviing my slaves. i enjoy free labor.  id like to keep my slaves. so id like for you to go off to war so i can keep them."

what would have been the response? most likely f' you.

imagine you are a young man in boston.  someone comes and tells you, 'id really like you to fight in a bitch of a war because there are some negros in bondage down south'

again,  not likely to get an enthusiastic response.

Yeah of course, I do not want to dishonor southerners who were obiously not fighting because they hated black men but because they had a sense of patriotism for their state and their family and of course most northerners fought against the south because they were traitors or even because they needed something to do.

[War on Want]

I am now convinced that EMD is more clueless than Gporter or Benconstine, to think slavery was the main cause of the Civil War is incredibly naive.  It may have been a rallying cry, but the only reason it became a major issue was later to keep Great Britain out of the war.  It does not take a scholar to tell you that the Brits were close to supporting the South but the North making it a moral crusade against slavery prevented it.

EMD, this thread only makes you look more ill-informed, go start a band or something and leave debate to the grown-up table

Christ you are stupid. Almost everyone on Atlas said that was its main cause and yet you pick on me. Shut up, you are now on ignore.

[War on Want]

Why would we be jealous of your slave system?

Northern industry wanted to capitalize it in order to dominate the southern economy for their own interest.

Capitalism > slavery

[War on Want]

Why would we be jealous of your slave system?

Northern industry wanted to capitalize it in order to dominate the southern economy for their own interest.

Capitalism > slavery

Republicanism > Plutocracy

The Gilded Age came about a great deal because of the Civil War.

Maybe but the South had absolutley no right to seceede and some good things came out of it for a while.

[War on Want]

The role of slavery in the Civil War is vastly overrated. Fewer than 3% of Southerners owned slaves. A vast majority were Yeoman Farmers who had two thing they loved: a farm and a family. When these were threshed by Northern invasion, they fought for their homes. They fought for their way of life, a way of life that Yankee Republicans and industrialists threatened. 

The Civil War was a war was caused because the two regions of the nation were very different:

1) The North which had industry but lacked tight families and tradition.
2) The South was a close knit, agricultural community.

People so different could never get along, which is why war came. It would have happened whether or not there were slaves. The crisis over tariffs in the 1830s and state's rights were far more responsible for the war than 100,000 or so slaves in the South. 

Simply to cement my point further there is a story I'm very fond of. In 1862, soon after the Battle of Shiloh, a Union brigade surrounded a single ragged Confederate solider. This Confederate was a middle aged, Yeoman farmer who couldn't have cared much about slavery or the Constitution. "What are you fighting for reb?" the Union commander asked. "I'm fighting 'cause your down here," was the response. That was the Southern spirit, keep out of our homes. The South saw the North ever since the tariff probelms in the 1830s as a group of people who wanted to destroy their agricultural, close knit way of life and replace it with cold city life.

In conclusion, slavery was not the Southern way of life. Slavery was just a part of a larger North-South divide: differing ways of life. The South's Yeoman Farmers were going to protect their homes, farms, families and property from Northern aggression, and the war came.   

 

Interesting. I largely agree with you that that is why southerners fought and joined regiments and such but I meant the government's views and why the state government seceeded.

[War on Want]

The Civil War had many causes... but one catalyst.

Due to the bloody-minded attitude of the Sthn states - they did without the technological advancements that made the North so much economically stronger. They found themselves in a situation where they had nothing but cotton, and could not survive without slavery.

There's a great saying about the Confederacy and State's rights... "died of a theory".

Actually, tax revenues from the south were much higher then the north. The south was paying the largest majority of the federal tax bill and getting very little in return. The idea that slavery solely revolved around the south is fiction and the proponents of that lie are those who want to sell Yankee propaganda. Northerners, especially Mass. and NY, were raking in huge amounts of profits from slave trading, etc. The belief that abolition was popular in the Northeast is complete bunk and the only ones who even teach that are the liars in the public screwl system.

That's a lie.  By the time the Civil War started the only Northern states with slaves were New Jersey and Delaware with a combined 1,816 slaves.  Meanwhile the entire slave population of the United States was approaching 4 million.  Also, slave trading was based nearly exclusively in Virginia and the Carolinas, with a little expansion to Kentucky and Tennessee at certain points.  Let's also not forget that both "President" Davis and "Vice President" Stephens stated themselves that the war was caused by slavery.  And if by "tax revenues" you mean tariff revenues, then you are correct in your tax assertion.  Not to mention that the infrastructure improvements in the South paid for by the federal government seem to be a fair trade for the moderately higher impact of tariffs on the region.  The claimed benefit to the North from slavery is a bit of a stretch as well.  The United States' benefiting as a whole from the cotton trade that relied on slavery does not exactly imply that the Northern states were exclusively "raking in huge amounts of profits."  In fact, without the immense exporting capacity of the North, the South's cotton industry wouldn't do much good.

No, it's the truth. Most of the very wealthy in Boston and New York made their fortunes on the trade and sale of African slaves. That's an undeniable fact. I don't even think the brainwashing liars in the public school system deny that fact anymore.

Uhhhhhh you know the slave trade was banned in the 1808 right and that the Civil War started in 1860, 52 years later when many of the wealthy who had made profits off of it were dead? So many families got wealthy off of the slave trade, but we had a lassiez faire economic system(which I know you like), so their wealth was passed down to other generations who might not admire why they have it but they won't give it away.
Also to add on to this, you do realise that passing the blame onto other wealthy northerners is very ignorant as by this time they already had an industralised economy, while the south was still very agrarian(one of the causes of the civil war I am sure you know). The north really has no guilt dealing with slavery, besides Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware and two of those states were/are de facto southern states.

[War on Want]

LOL @ EMD thinking that the slave trade ended in 1808.  EMD do you also think drug use stopped in the 1980s or drinking during Prohibition?

No but it was relativley non-existent because it as punishable by DEATH. It isn't a little slap on the wrist like drugs(like it should be), it is DEATH.

[War on Want]

So, um if it was "illegal" I beg you to tell me how Grant owned slaves right up until the passage of the 13th amendment. Plus, slave importation was illegalized, not slave trade within the United states. On top of that the whole black market system came into play as well.

Yes I know but it was banned in the North so these businessmen couldn't own slaves in the first place or really participate without being in the black market system.
Also lol Grant freeded all of his father's slaves and also, because I am a Christian, I do not fault him if he did any misdeeds with his father's slaves because in his memoirs he wrote this and looked like he repented:
 "The (South) was burdened with an institution abhorrent to all civilized people not brought up under it, and one which degraded labor, kept it in ignorance and enervated the governing class...  Soon the slaves would have outnumbered the masters, and, not being in sympathy with them, would have risen in their might and exterminated them.  The war was expensive to the South, as well as to the North, both in blood and treasure, but it was worth all it cost."

[War on Want]

The "truth" you spout is more like a proven lie. Keep on believing that your side was "right" and continue to cover up the rape, murder and destruction your people waged on the south. The facts are that many northerners made their fortunes off the slave trade and covered up their sins with the sham called "abolition". The fact is your side raped, pillaged and murdered citizens of an independent nation. The fact is your side, the lying federal government, had its filthy president throw innocent civilians in jail for speaking out against northern aggression. The only "justification" that your side could come up with was "maintaining the union" which only 30 years before the start of the war half of your states wanted to separate from.

Keep on spewing lies about slavery and your "indepdent nation" and how your side massacred black soldiers because they were black and how your side killed and imprisioned unionists in Texas and in many other states. Also keep on ignoring the facts by our "propaganda"and keep on living in a fairytale land where the South was great and noble when it had a whole race in bondage and seceeded because Lincoln wanted to stop the spread of slavery.

[War on Want]

The "truth" you spout is more like a proven lie. Keep on believing that your side was "right" and continue to cover up the rape, murder and destruction your people waged on the south. The facts are that many northerners made their fortunes off the slave trade and covered up their sins with the sham called "abolition". The fact is your side raped, pillaged and murdered citizens of an independent nation. The fact is your side, the lying federal government, had its filthy president throw innocent civilians in jail for speaking out against northern aggression. The only "justification" that your side could come up with was "maintaining the union" which only 30 years before the start of the war half of your states wanted to separate from.

Keep on spewing lies about slavery and your "indepdent nation" and how your side massacred black soldiers because they were black and how your side killed and imprisioned unionists in Texas and in many other states. Also keep on ignoring the facts by our "propaganda"and keep on living in a fairytale land where the South was great and noble when it had a whole race in bondage and seceeded because Lincoln wanted to stop the spread of slavery.

The only spewing propaganda and fairytales is you.  Your posts read like a cheap 8th grade textbook (I assume thats' because that's the only history you've ever read).  The only one slaughtering anyone was Lincoln killing over 300 Native Americans, only stopping when he feared it might cause the Brits to support the South.

Yes I do agree that was very despicable. I do not agree with how we handled indian affairs, especially during the Civil War. That is one area where I will say the South handled better than us. Also please point to where I am spewing propaganda and fairy tales. I don't see it in my post. It is true that the South did that to suspected Unionists in Texas but it is also true that the Union did that to suspected rebels. The idea is that niether sides really waged war "nobly" because warfare was changing by this time.

Also please shut up, your not funny, you don't know much and I think 90% of Atlas agrees with me. I think the only reason you like to bother me and Ben so much is because we are younger than you and know more than you. It is really getting annoying.

[War on Want]

LOL kind of funny.  The reason I keep posting in this thread is because its really funny that Gporter knows mroe about history.  At least Ben tries to learn from his mistakes, instead you keep spewing these fables about slavery being the main cause of the Civil War and Lincoln being a hero.  Please, once you graduate third grade, take the summer and learn about American history.  You seriously have no idea what in the world you are talking about.  You also have taken your usual step of backtracking and taking both sides to try and say that you are right.  Again, its not hard to win an argument when your on both sides of the issue, just hard to win an election.

You didn't point out anything wrong with my post there, you just said I was stupid for thinking Lincoln was a hero. I don't think he is but I do think he was a decent president that had good intentions and I do think he was on the right side on the slavery issue because he wanted it to stop expanding.

[War on Want]

The Confederate states were not an independent nation as they had no right to secede in the first place.

Could you point to exactly where in the Constitution it says that states have no right to secede?

It doesn't say it in the Consitituion but I really don't care because America would be a fragmented piece of sh**t if we gave states the right to do that and it would make the world worse off.(It probably does say it in the Constitution but I am too lazy to look for it and will let somebody else)

[War on Want]

I don't see any point in arguing over the Civil War.  It happened 150 years ago....All arguing does is make people hate people from other parts of the country.

The main reason it's being argued is because EMD made a thread cause he thought "OMG I am so smart and DWTL is an idiot", only to get major egg on his face

Nope. 80-90% of the forum agreed with me that Slavery was the main cause of the war. I never said it was the ONLY cause did I?

[War on Want]

I don't see any point in arguing over the Civil War.  It happened 150 years ago....All arguing does is make people hate people from other parts of the country.

The main reason it's being argued is because EMD made a thread cause he thought "OMG I am so smart and DWTL is an idiot", only to get major egg on his face

Nope. 80-90% of the forum agreed with me that Slavery was the main cause of the war. I never said it was the ONLY cause did I?

The poll is not that high, and polls on this forum are almost biased toward the Union.  There are some people on this forum who I don't agree with their views, but seriously you are just an idiot.  You make no sense, your arguments are idealistic.  Please leave the forum and take your place at the kiddie table again until you grow up.

Oh please, everyone hates you here. You are the one that needs to leave. I am never constantly called an idiot, only by you and a few radical Conservatives. You just chose someone to pick on and you figured you could pick on me because I am 14 and you though I wasn't smart. Don't mistake me for Gporter.

[War on Want]

I don't see any point in arguing over the Civil War.  It happened 150 years ago....All arguing does is make people hate people from other parts of the country.

The main reason it's being argued is because EMD made a thread cause he thought "OMG I am so smart and DWTL is an idiot", only to get major egg on his face

Not really.  Surprisingly this whole thread is not about you!  Most of us were having an intelligent, thought-inspired debate that benefited the content of the forum.  Then you two come along and turn it right back into middle school.

I take full blame. If you want I can just start another thread without the drama. I'm sorry I just should have ignored him.

[War on Want]

The average Southerner was not fighting to preserve slavery.  However, the main cause of the war was the economic differences of the North and South, and it just so happens that the entire Southern economy rested on slavery.
So although slavery wasn't "the point" of the war, it was definitely at the heart of it all.

But while slavery was certainly a main factor in the economic differences, it was not the reason for the war.  If you made the point it was the reason for economic differences, I would buy that.  But the idea that the North started the war because it found slavery immoral is ridiculous.

I actually agree with you to a point but much of the North did find slavery ridiculous and the South did fear their slaves would be taken away, and thus much of their agrarian lifestyle. Slavery was probably the main economic difference. The South had an almost Feudalist economy, while the North was into Capitalism and industralization.

[War on Want]

The average Southerner was not fighting to preserve slavery.  However, the main cause of the war was the economic differences of the North and South, and it just so happens that the entire Southern economy rested on slavery.
So although slavery wasn't "the point" of the war, it was definitely at the heart of it all.

But while slavery was certainly a main factor in the economic differences, it was not the reason for the war.  If you made the point it was the reason for economic differences, I would buy that.  But the idea that the North started the war because it found slavery immoral is ridiculous.

Of course that idea is ridiculous.  Who actually thinks the North started a war to liberate slaves or moral grounds?
The fact remains, though, that slavery is at the root of the cause, as it was the key economic difference in the North and South.

Huh? Really the South started it because they seceeded, but it really doesn't matter at all , what happened, happened.