Pro Choice / Pro Life - who is winning the "Culture war" (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 07, 2024, 07:03:37 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2008 Elections
  Pro Choice / Pro Life - who is winning the "Culture war" (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Pro Choice / Pro Life - who is winning the "Culture war"
#1
The GOP and it's allies - Clear Winner
 
#2
It's close - but the GOP has an edge
 
#3
It's close - but the Dems have an edge
 
#4
The Dems and  itheir allies - Clear Winner
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 74

Author Topic: Pro Choice / Pro Life - who is winning the "Culture war"  (Read 2907 times)
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,029


« on: June 04, 2005, 05:46:02 PM »

"The" abortion debate is actually 2 debates.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,029


« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 07:32:17 PM »

"The" abortion debate is actually 2 debates.

Could you elucidate on that some.

I don't disagree,  I think there are two seperate debates - one of whether or not it should be legal, the other of morality, dividing people into three or four different groups depending on how you count.

Legal/ morally acceptable.
Legal/ morally questionable
illegal/morally reprehensible.

This is an interesting way of looking at it. A lot of liberals seem to fall into the middle category there, which personally to me seems a little confusing, but what I was meaning was that there are 2 separate questions being debated-- what rights should a woman (a "cultural" debate) have, and what rights should a fetus have (a "moral" debate)?

For example, among the "prolife" side, there is one strand of argument that opposes abortion rights from a "cultural" perspective. They see the ability of women to have sex without "facing the consequences" as an attack on "traditional" society, and oppose abortion rights and contraceptive education with near equal vigor.

There is another strand of argument that is against abortion rights from a "moral" perspective. They see no moral distinction between a newly fertilized zygote and a newborn baby, and have been convinced by graphic pictures and ultrasound that legalized abortion is the moral equivalent to slavery or even genocide. A considerable number of otherwise moderate or even liberal people consider themselves pro-life for this reason.

For each of these pro-life strands, there is a countervailing pro-choice strand; one defends a woman's right to an abortion on cultural (feminist/woman-centered) grounds; the other on moral (fetus-centered) grounds.

The debate originated along the "cultural" clash in the 1970s, but the "moral" debate is more of a winning issue for the pro-lifers due to the spread of ultrasound and the legality of late term abortion, and this is what accounts for their narrow recent advantage. As a result, activists in the "moral" aspect of the debate are more effective and have, barely perceptibly, become more numerous, especially in pro-life circles, in the past 10 years or so.

IMO, in order to rebalance the debate, pro-choicers must begin to also address the issue more in moral terms, even if this means re-adjusting their views. The stem cell debate shows that this can be done without giving in to the pro-lifers.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,029


« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2005, 05:59:22 PM »

For example, among the "prolife" side, there is one strand of argument that opposes abortion rights from a "cultural" perspective. They see the ability of women to have sex without "facing the consequences" as an attack on "traditional" society, and oppose abortion rights and contraceptive education with near equal vigor.


My view is similar to this, but a bit expanded.  While yes, "responsibility of your actions" has to be taken into consideration, the burden should not rest upon the mother alone.  The man who impregnates the woman has just as much responsibility for the child.  If the couple is not married, and has no intention to become married, he must provide child support to the mother until the child turns 18 or the child is placed up for addoption.  With the mother being the one who brought the child into the world, it would be her decision to place the child up for adoption, not the fathers.

But in either case, the decision to have sex is theirs alone.  If the woman is not a willing participant (rape, incest,....), abortion should be allowed.  Just as if her life is in danger due to the pregnancy.

Thanks, this pretty much sums up the pro-life position in one of the two debates. Not all people's policy positions are derived exclusively from either culturally-centered or morally-centered convictions, but some are. Nor is it that "cultural" issues aren't morally grounded, or that "moral" judgments cannot be culturally grounded. It's just that the two debates generally use different types of justifications based either around cultural values (Judeo-Christian mores vs. Equality/Liberty etc) or around moral appeals to the conscience; and that arguments from one debate cannot justifiably be used to rebut arguments from the other, although they are often wrongly mixed.

The rape exception provides a good illustration of this. People who oppose abortion on mostly cultural grounds should be supportive of a rape exception, while whose who oppose it on mostly moral grounds should not.

Monopolization- correct. The underlying dynamics of a debate are more important than the status quo during a period when an issue is low salience. For example, in 1893 there was a massive economic crisis but Cleveland did nothing. The public was fundamentally opposed to government intervention in the economy. Yet when economic crisis hit in 1929, the people elected a president who instituted sweeping reforms under the New Deal. Why did the government respond so differently to economic crises?

Well, the underlying nature of the debate was changed by the Progressive Movement and the government's successful mobilization during World War I. The relatively placid, lassiez-faire America of the 1920s belied the fundamental changes in the debate over government's reaction to an economic crisis that had taken place underneath the surface. These changes had taken place underneath the surface because government reaction to economic depression wasn't a salient issue from 1896 to 1932. If you had taken polls in the 1920s on the issue, they would have been relatively constant in opposition to government intervention. But in general, the "opinions" seem stable because most people aren't thinking about the issue. In reality, very few people's opinions are as stable as political obsessives such as ourselves.

When an issue emerges after many years to high salience, the factors surrounding the issue will have changed-- in the New Deal case, ideological opposition to government intervention had been quietly eviserated by the progressive movement and WWI. Most people won't recognized these changed dynamics until they return to prominence. But they could have been identified by looking beneath the surface.

The same goes with abortion. The last time the issue was really salient was during the feminist movement of the 1970s. At that time the debate was heavily cultural. Most pro-lifers fit the profile of MODU here, in their beliefs and rhetoric. Today, the pro-life rhetoric has changed, helped by new technologies and strategies, and the dynamics are shifting away from the cultural debate to the moral debate, which is totally different. This means the seeming stability of public opinion and public policy over the decades belie fundamentally shifting dynamics that may leave pro-choice identifiers in for a rude shock once the issue again becomes highly salient (which is likely in the next 2-4 years).
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 14 queries.