Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin

[JSojourner]

Voting for Obama/Biden.

I predict McCain/Palin will win.

[JSojourner]

Undecided.

These past few days I would have said Obama/Biden.

Nick, look into Palin's stance on the social issues.  I think we'll get you back!  ;-)

[JSojourner]

Undecided.

These past few days I would have said Obama/Biden.

Nick, look into Palin's stance on the social issues.  I think we'll get you back!  ;-)

It's not so much that it's Palin but that it's not Romney, which really had me worried.

We'll see though. We still have a relatively long time till the election.

Ah, well...I'm with you on that.  Willard was a nice guy...but bad news as a leader, IMO.

[JSojourner]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

[JSojourner]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

[JSojourner]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

Why?

It's not just that she's female.  It's that she's a rugged sort, a northwesterner, an outdoors-type.  She's the John Tester of the GOP, except a hell of a lot better looking.  Oregon is always close.  My HOPE is that Oregon will see how extremely conservative she is on choice -- wanting to imprison abortive women and abortion providers -- and will reject her on that premise.  That said, they are going to like that she found middle ground on the gay rights issue, and that she has challenged the old conservative lions in her state.  I am NOT SAYING Oregon is now in play. I am just saying if the election keeps moving in the direction it's been headed, it may be.  You gotta remember, McCain now has the Palin thing in his favor.  But he also has the Rove thing in his favor.  It won't be long before we hear that Barack Hussein Osama was a cocaine dealer, involved with organized crime, and other goodies.  We've already had the nonsense that he is a Muslim, he is ashamed of the flag and that he and his "ghetto wife" are militant, white-hating racists.  None of that will EVER come from John McCain's mouth.  But it will come from the 527's that support him.  And it will be every bit as effective as it was against John Kerry.  I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

[JSojourner]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

Why?

It's not just that she's female.  It's that she's a rugged sort, a northwesterner, an outdoors-type.  She's the John Tester of the GOP, except a hell of a lot better looking.  Oregon is always close.  My HOPE is that Oregon will see how extremely conservative she is on choice -- wanting to imprison abortive women and abortion providers -- and will reject her on that premise.  That said, they are going to like that she found middle ground on the gay rights issue, and that she has challenged the old conservative lions in her state.  I am NOT SAYING Oregon is now in play. I am just saying if the election keeps moving in the direction it's been headed, it may be.  You gotta remember, McCain now has the Palin thing in his favor.  But he also has the Rove thing in his favor.  It won't be long before we hear that Barack Hussein Osama was a cocaine dealer, involved with organized crime, and other goodies.  We've already had the nonsense that he is a Muslim, he is ashamed of the flag and that he and his "ghetto wife" are militant, white-hating racists.  None of that will EVER come from John McCain's mouth.  But it will come from the 527's that support him.  And it will be every bit as effective as it was against John Kerry.  I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

I give McCain a 35% chance of winning... The Obama camp will paint him as Bush and it will not even be close on election day.

I hope you're right, Josh.  I really do.

Now seriously -- are you an Obama supporter?  Weren't you a McCain guy awhile back?  I can't keep my fellow forumites straight.

[JSojourner]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

Why?

It's not just that she's female.  It's that she's a rugged sort, a northwesterner, an outdoors-type.  She's the John Tester of the GOP, except a hell of a lot better looking.  Oregon is always close.  My HOPE is that Oregon will see how extremely conservative she is on choice -- wanting to imprison abortive women and abortion providers -- and will reject her on that premise.  That said, they are going to like that she found middle ground on the gay rights issue, and that she has challenged the old conservative lions in her state.  I am NOT SAYING Oregon is now in play. I am just saying if the election keeps moving in the direction it's been headed, it may be.  You gotta remember, McCain now has the Palin thing in his favor.  But he also has the Rove thing in his favor.  It won't be long before we hear that Barack Hussein Osama was a cocaine dealer, involved with organized crime, and other goodies.  We've already had the nonsense that he is a Muslim, he is ashamed of the flag and that he and his "ghetto wife" are militant, white-hating racists.  None of that will EVER come from John McCain's mouth.  But it will come from the 527's that support him.  And it will be every bit as effective as it was against John Kerry.  I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

I think you're overreacting.  Take a deep breath, and relax.

Ben,

I may be overreacting.  I often do where my country is concerned.  

But I will tell you this.  We Democrats had better overreact.  We acted like it was in the bag for Gore in 2000.  Who WOULDN'T vote for the Vice President whose boss presided over the best economy in history?  Polls, notwithstanding...we thought it was a surefire win.  (By "we", I mean Democrats in their entirety.) Then, in 2004, after watching The Decider completely phuck up this country beyond all recognition -- militarily, economically and socially -- we were sure Americans would prefer an educated man with an unimpeachable record of patriotism.  How'd that work out?  This is what I am saying, Ben.  We have got to stop expecting voters to wake up and realize the Republican platform, the Republican candidate and the interests that support both do NOT have their best interests at heart.  We are sure that after eight years of The Decider, and now with a candidate who is almost indistinguishable on the issues, people will say, "Enough".  Nonsense.  This is a very conservative country.  Americans are easily frightened, easily led and easily duped.  And the people handling McCain know how to do it.  It's time we figured out how to fight it now.  I don't want to pick up my copy of The American Prospect a week after the election and then read a great article on what we should have done.  I am getting bloody tired of those!

[JSojourner]

I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

Perhaps the wisest statement ever typed upon this forum, JSojourner. 

Of course my only edit would be to say that the masses have not learned a thing and are still being led around by the nose as usual.  The elite knows exactly what it is doing, as always.

We don't always agree, but we're of one mind on this.

And just to note for my Republican friends -- I am not saying every person who votes R does so because they are easily led or vaccuous.  Hell, I know people who are voting for Obama just because of his skin color.  That's pretty vapid!

What I am saying is that the average voter chooses to remain uninformed about all but the few pet issues they might cherish and they let whoever their media or religious gurus fill in the blank.

Americans fell for the Swift Boat lies.  How can I not believe they will fall for "Obama is a Muslim crack dealer"?

[JSojourner]

Well, that's our problem right there. This country is simply too conservative to perserve itself (ironic). How do we change that?

I suppose the age=old argument is that once white working class persons become sufficiently impoverished by capitalism they will set aside their racism, hubris, and hatreds, and critique the system. 

People say this is what happened in the 1930s.  But I'm skeptical, as the same ugly system survived fully intact.  People also say that Europeans have been intelligent enough to not fall for oppression, and it is true they are not as stupid as the american  electorate.  But they still have enormous inequality.. just not such a hideously low low as we do.

I think it is safe to say that the masses will never stop yoking themselves willingly, nor passing the whip up to their master's hand.

Excellent, Opie.

That explains why Southern White men continue to vote against their own economic interests in election after election.  In 2000, it was because Gore was a liberal tree hugger who hates Amurricka. In 2004, it was because Kerry was Hanoi Jane's twin and he was "gonna take away our guns and ban the Bible".  Now do we really expect any different reaction to a guy named Barack Hussein Obama?

I think that he has as many states leaning his direction right now is pretty amazing.  When the 527's get through with him, the map may look like 1984.

[JSojourner]

274-264 McCain/Palin win!

Not everything will be like 2004 forever.

I have my astrology and it has given me the correct map, which will be revealed later today.

Seriously.  You're never going to go away are you??

[JSojourner]

274-264 McCain/Palin win!

Not everything will be like 2004 forever.

I have my astrology and it has given me the correct map, which will be revealed later today.

Seriously.  You're never going to go away are you??

Every so often, I will come back for a short while, and then get tired and take a break.

And believe me, the 2008 map won't look exactly like 2000 and 2004, like it or not.

And I will tell texasindy on you because of that picture!

How old are you?  

Oh Jesus...someone just make it stop.