UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Conservatopia]

This government has once again done what it does best.  U-turned.

They've backed down on their ridiculous new standards procedures but it isn't clear what the alternative arrangements will be.

I'm sympathetic with the charge that the existing arrangements aren't fit for purpose - taking ages on enquiries being the biggest shortcoming.  But this isn't the way to fix it.

The vote yesterday was interesting.  The Tory rebels included MPs from all wings of the party not just the usual suspects.

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A "unity" candidate was a non-runner as soon as Paterson announced he wouldn't be standing in any byelection, simple as. But of course #FBPEers have history for this sort of thing - hence all the weird and wonderful "National" governments proposed in the spring/summer of 2019.

Goodness that brings back memories.  Remember the all-woman cabinet?  Or the ones with Ken Clarke and Jeremy Corbyn leading the country together? Or Heidi Allen one? Fun times indeed.

[Conservatopia]

In the 1990s, Labour was in a much better position though to capitalise on all this.

The strongest way to capitalise now is to keep saying ‘11 years in government… instead of fixing x they’re protecting their rich mates’.

I don't know what you've found but I've found the "11 years in government" thing isn't really seen that way - maybe partly because of the changes in PM and policy that have happened during that period.  Not to mention that 5 of those years were in coalition.  It's an interesting phenomenon because somehow people don't seem to have become as fatigued of the Tories as they frankly should have by now.

[Conservatopia]

Politicians right now are all feining shock at this government's corruption - and they're not wrong because it is a real problem.  But as someone who works with local government every day and in an industry adjacent to *construction* no less - the UK is not the nation of upstanding hard workers we like to think it is.  It's corrupt from the bottom to the top and frankly the rot is what helps the wheels go round.  Not fun for those of us in the industry however that try not to be corrupt.

[Conservatopia]

Politicians right now are all feining shock at this government's corruption - and they're not wrong because it is a real problem.  But as someone who works with local government every day and in an industry adjacent to *construction* no less - the UK is not the nation of upstanding hard workers we like to think it is.  It's corrupt from the bottom to the top and frankly the rot is what helps the wheels go round.  Not fun for those of us in the industry however that try not to be corrupt.

The evangelical says that but the evangelical will still put a cross next to his godless, hooker-hiring, shyster Tory MP because its better to "own the left" and "be a winner" than it is to have a satanic Labour government.

Its why the evangelical will burn in hell.

Excuse me?

[Conservatopia]

Caroline Nokes is hated across the party because of, amongst other things, her extremism on issues relating to gender and the like.  She's like the Tory Rosie Duffield except on the opposite side of that moronic issue.  Whilst I personally believe her accusations against Stanley (he has form on this) I can understand why fellow MPs aren't willing to take her seriously.

A WhatsApp* group called Liz for Leader has been set up by a Tory MP.  Also at least 2 MPs have written letters to Brady (more than 50 are needed).  It's just sabre rattling for now but it is indicative of how embattled Johnson has become over the last month.  His saving grace is that nobody is particularly hyped about Truss or Sunak.  Boris is ripe for picking but there's nobody ready to do the job.  Churchill's quote of the end of the beginning might apply.

* All internal Tory shenanigans take place on WhatsApp these days.  Most of the groupings of MPs (Northern Research, Covid Recovery etc) are primarily WhatsApp based.  Only China Research has any real life outside WhatsApp.

[Conservatopia]

Is it true that British Evangelicals tend to vote liberal democrat ?

I grew up in a UK evangelical household, which was typically Lib-Dem (occasionally Tory in certain constituencies). It was pretty common in our congregation too.

I know things are a little more fractured now, but that was certainly the state of affairs in the 00s and the coalition years.

As a disclaimer, most of that time was in Scotland, where tactical voting has become more common, and we lived in a LibDem-SNP marginal seat.

Was there any particular reason for this ? Seems odd given that the libdem don't seem aligned to evangelicals on any particular issue and the electoral behaviour of their American brethren

It makes sense really.  The Tories aren't aligned with evangelical Christian beliefs so evangelicals aren't going to kneejerk vote Tory.  Also some evangelical families have voted Liberal right back to Gladstone so that probably plays a part.  Basically religion isn't a big deal in this country and people would put other considerations first when voting.

I don't vote Tory just because I'm a Christian.  I voted Tory because I thought they were the least bad option.

[Conservatopia]

In my experience, many social conservatives vent/grumble privately (no judgement - just an observation, having heard several of these), but are too invested in other political causes to change their voting patterns. Think of it as the inverse or perhaps a corollary to the reluctant Trump-voting evangelical ("I don't like his attitude, but he'll protect the unborn"), essentially saying something like "I may not agree on the redefinition of marriage, but I care too much about the EU/NHS funding/immigration reform/blocking the *insert other party* candidate etc, to switch to another party."

Can't emphasize this enough.  FPTP means there's no point voting for, for example, the CPA, and there's no point voting Labour because they also supported SSM.  Besides, many conservatives' MPs voted against those things when they came up.  Mine did for example.  So therefore social conservatives don't bother changing their voting patterns because ultimately there's no point and it doesn't matter.

[Conservatopia]

The PM has pulled a last ditch effort to distract the nation by having his wife give birth a baby girl.

Muh dead cat!!

[Conservatopia]

This time it really does seem different.  Even the most pro-Boris people amongst my friends think that he should go.  Although predictably they put most of the blame on Carrie.

I think we need a new PM too but that's not news because I've never been a fan.

[Conservatopia]

This time it really does seem different.  Even the most pro-Boris people amongst my friends think that he should go.  Although predictably they put most of the blame on Carrie.

I think we need a new PM too but that's not news because I've never been a fan.

Do you think the people saying that if North Shropshire goes yellow that'll be the end of Johnson are right?

No, I think the Tories will lose by a comfortable margin but the result won't finish Boris.  It could be the catalyst however for MPs to start actively maneuvering against him in a more organised fashion.

[Conservatopia]

Approaching 1997 level figures in the latest poll.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1469332156656889860?s=21

"Any other Tory leader would be 20 points ahead."

[Conservatopia]

I just have to say, yesterday was the 2nd anniversary of that general election that gave Boris Johnson his 80 seat majority and the night we knew Brexit would happen. It's surprising, though not exactly shocking, to see just how much Boris's political fortunes have changed since that night.

I will never forget watching Blyth Valley come in as the first Conservative gain of the night, as that was the moment we knew the exit poll was correct, and the look on the Labour candidate's face telling that she knew it was all over, not just for herself but for her party's hopes.

A feeling of euphoria for me that I don't think will ever be repeated.

[Conservatopia]

I think the chances of Johnson getting dislodged have, if anything, gone down in the last few days, as the scandals have been pushed off the front pages by ‘OMICRON REEEEEEE’. Whilst it’s true that a lot of Tory MP’s did rebel on vaccine passports, as has been noted above there was no real ideological consistency to those who did rebel (contrary to what is sometimes lazily assumed, plenty of people from the very Brexity right-wing of the party supported the measure, like Bill Cash), so there’s not really anything in this rebellion that provides a nucleus for a leadership challenge in the same way as, say, the rebellions against May’s Brexit deal did.

Of course, this could change if the party loses in tomorrow’s by-election, but as, I suspect, we’re now being put on track to go into a full lockdown some time in the new year, I really don’t see there being any good opportunities for MP’s to try and dislodge Johnson any time soon, and by the time that there are the wind will be well out of the sails of Partygate and all the other things that have dogged him for the last month.

I think the point is more that he has reached a nadir in trust with his MPs that he is unlikely to properly bounce back from.  That means he will only continue to lose support from MPs and members from here out.  So the next scandal that comes up (because there will be one) could be the one that finally tips this over the edge.

An aside: the reports in some media that Geoffrey Clifton-Brown will pull a Meyer are obviously nonsense.  It's not happening.  Unfortunately.

[Conservatopia]

I'm all in for Bournemouth.

Would be happy with Reading too.

[Conservatopia]

All this talk or Sunak and Patel being Tory leaders, do you think the white Tories and the Queen would want a nonwhite British premier?

We Tories are far too busy oppressing the poor and cooking up evil plans to sell the NHS to worry about American imports like race.

[Conservatopia]

I would draw the line at a PM with French ancestry though.  Rotten frogs.

[Conservatopia]

Lest we forget: UKIP were (briefly) the first semi-relevant party to have a "nonwhite" leader.

[Conservatopia]

Lest we forget: UKIP were (briefly) the first semi-relevant party to have a "nonwhite" leader.

Though to be honest, I'm not entirely sure that I wasn't UKIP leader for a hot second.

In the future, everyone will be UKIP leader for 15 minutes.

[Conservatopia]

Bronz, why don't you go check for scary Jews under your bed instead derailing the thread with this clueless nonsense?

[Conservatopia]

I think it's important to find out whether (((Ruby Wax))) would support smart military man Johnny Mercer over old white man evil Tory Bill Cash.

[Conservatopia]

Tony Blair has been given a knighthood.

We definitely live in the banter timeline.

[Conservatopia]

It feels weird that I, a right-winger, am probably one of the only people here that actually likes Tony Blair.

Actually no on second thoughts that isn't weird - it makes perfect sense...

[Conservatopia]

It feels weird that I, a right-winger, am probably one of the only people here that actually likes Tony Blair.

Actually no on second thoughts that isn't weird - it makes perfect sense...

Depends what you mean by "like" I suppose.

Though many now claim it with hindsight, those on the left who *always* disliked him were a small (even if vocal) minority. I personally have absolutely no problem in recognising that at his peak he was a totally compelling, inspiring and persuasive politician - comparable to only a handful of others since WW2. Not only did I "like" him in those years, at times a stronger word may have applied

But this makes his subsequent decline and fall all the more tragic and difficult to deal with. And many of his remaining professed "true believers" are some of the weirdest and most cult-like types currently out there (and at their worst, amongst the most unpleasant too)

Yes I can't disagree - Blairites can be very bizarre. Liz Kendall is one of the more normal ones and she's sometimes pretty wacky.

I'm obviously no Blairite though it probably won't surprise you to learn that I broadly support the Iraq War.

[Conservatopia]

Interesting that they didn't mention gay marriage isn't it.

(though that might not be unconnected with most Tory MPs at the time voting against)

To me that was always a Lib Dem "achievement".