Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread (user search)
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 924635 times)
Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2022, 11:54:11 PM »


OK, this is bad, if true (needs confirmation). Russia may be attacking Moldova also, not just Ukraine.

I saw a report of this 5-10 minutes ago but assumed it must be a mistake, but this is 2nd report I saw.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2022, 11:55:45 PM »


Chisinau is in Moldova (NOT IN UKRAINE)
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2022, 11:57:21 PM »
Quote from: jojoju1998 on February 23, 2022, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: 👁️👁️ on February 23, 2022, 11:54:11 PM


OK, this is bad, if true (needs confirmation). Russia may be attacking Moldova also, not just Ukraine.

I saw a report of this 5-10 minutes ago but assumed it must be a mistake, but this is 2nd report I saw.


If it is true, WHAT THE HELL ?? MOLDOVA ??



This was actually somewhat expected (if true). There were reports a week ago or so that intelligence was indicatin they might also attack Moldova.

However, Moldova is not in NATO.

But also this:
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2022, 11:59:36 PM »


A report of some sort of Ukrainian victory defending Kiev's airport (Boryspil airport). From an obvious pro-Ukrainian source, might not be objective.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2022, 12:01:26 AM »


Hopefully this means Moldova is not in fact under attack!!!
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2022, 12:03:59 AM »
More on Moldova. Seems unclear what is happening, but Transdnistria is a separatist area of Moldova (Russian backed) on the Ukraine-Moldova border, for context, so it could be something there.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2022, 12:05:12 AM »


Video from Ukrainian President Zelensky
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2022, 12:07:37 AM »
Quote from: compucomp on February 23, 2022, 11:58:51 PM
Indeed, and the fact that the city fell in 2 hours? I find this unbelievable, even if the Ukrainian military simply retreated without fighting and there is a lot of pro-Russian support in Mariupol. It would take more than 2 hours to just occupy the city I'd imagine.

The information environment is really not clear enough to be sure that Mariupol has in fact fallen. It will take time before a lot of things become clear, the situation is inherently chaotic now and will be for a while until things get sorted out and the situation becomes clearer.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2022, 12:16:08 AM »

If they win, it will probably be as a result of a long term insurgency. However, the Ukrainian Army can do damage now in particular in any urban fighting. They will probably have a harder time if they try to fight out in the open, due to the Russian firepower/artillery/air/drone advantage.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2022, 12:19:28 AM »
Quote from: nicholas.slaydon on February 24, 2022, 12:10:33 AM
Quote from: Karpatsky on February 24, 2022, 12:09:02 AM
The most tragic part of all of this is that the west could have easily prevented this and chose not to. If there's any justice in history Biden will be remembered in the same breath as Chamberlain. We are hoping hard for the best.

I mean, that is possible, but to say it could have been done "easily" is a strong claim which requires strong evidence going beyond speculation. And it is not as though alternative courses of possible action may not have had some vary obvious potential downsides and costs. It is not something that can be described as simple or easy, even if you want to argue that Biden's policy is wrong (which is a fair argument to make if you want).
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2022, 12:24:16 AM »

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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2022, 12:30:21 AM »
CNN reporting ground attacks coming from Belarus into Ukraine
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2022, 12:34:35 AM »
Quote from: Omega21 on February 24, 2022, 12:26:38 AM
According to CNN's Defense sources "Russia won't be indiscriminately targeting cities, although their targeting might not be perfect", so at least there shouldn't be too many civilian casualties.

Obviously, though, even a single one is one too many in this case.

They probably won't be intentionally targeting civilians, but most of their munitions are not precision-guided munitions, in particular all the artillery. They have not a huge amount of aerial precision guided bombs and cruise missiles, and they will always save a lot of those in case of any potential future conflict with NATO:
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #113 on: February 24, 2022, 12:40:44 AM »
Quote from: Storr on February 24, 2022, 12:31:49 AM
Quote from: 👁️👁️ on February 24, 2022, 12:24:16 AM


From what I've read,  in order to take over the whole of Ukraine, Russia would need at least 400,000 troops. That's nowhere near the publicly floated figures of troops near the border. The goal would seem to be less than full invasion and occupation. Taking over the Ukrainian-held areas of Luhansk and Donetsk would likely be the lowest hanging objective and makes sense with the very recent recognition of the LPR and DPR.  

The troops near the border are mostly the regular military, but in the lead up to this, there has been a lot of open source intel indicating that the Russian National Guard (Rosgvardia) was mobilizing. They are not all sitting right on the border, but can follow on afterwards.

If you look through this twitter feed over the past several weeks, you can see abundant evidence of that https://twitter.com/RALee85
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2022, 12:44:42 AM »


Ukrainian military claims that its air force is repelling Russian attacks.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2022, 12:49:31 AM »


Unverified, but some posters were asking for any reports of this earlier.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2022, 12:52:22 AM »
Same report of a Russian plane shot down, from reuters reporter
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2022, 12:56:11 AM »
Additional unverified reports of a larger number of Russian aircraft shot down
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2022, 12:58:41 AM »


Is he referring to the missile attacks on cities/airports, or anything else that happened near the Polish border?
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2022, 01:06:03 AM »
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2022, 01:08:30 AM »
Quote from: NOVA Green on February 24, 2022, 01:04:51 AM
Anybody else leaning towards the concept that Russia is moving towards a full scale invasion and occupation?

Could be a great Putin bluff, but why go all out unless you are looking for the best position on the chessboard?

There is no possible case that it is limited to Donetsk/Luhansk, given that we have video of troops crossing from Belarus into Northern Ukraine etc, which is nowhere near.

It is possible that Putin may not want to occupy 100% of Ukraine all the way to the Polish border, but it is clearly not some small portion of it that he has in mind.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2022, 01:11:41 AM »


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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2022, 01:14:43 AM »
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 7,892
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2022, 01:23:43 AM »
Quote from: Old School Republican on February 24, 2022, 01:18:26 AM
Quote from: Badger on February 24, 2022, 01:11:28 AM
May every Russian  Soldier who enters the Ukraine catch a bullet through the eye socket.  Every. God. Damned. One.

There, I said it.

nothing wrong with saying that

If you really want to wish death on someone, perhaps do it upon the leader who sent the young Russian soldiers into Ukraine, not on the young soldiers themselves who are not really the ones responsible for all this, remember that they are pawns in a larger machine.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2022, 01:35:47 AM »
Quote from: nicholas.slaydon on February 24, 2022, 01:27:22 AM
However it is those pawns as a part of a larger machine that are making this war go on. Without the consent of the soldiers, this war would not be able to go on. The decisions of Vladimir Putin are evil, and so therefore those that uphold those orders and carry them out are likewise just as evil.

US soldiers (and soldiers of other countries, for posters from other countries) would do the same if given similar orders. If you would not, honestly, say the same thing in that case, then you are not being objective.

There is nothing special about Russian soldiers. You could say that what they are doing is morally or ethically wrong, but such is the nature of war.

Note however that I am not speaking about any soldiers that may commit war crimes, that is obviously another matter.
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