Should Puerto Rico be a state?

[angus]

I voted yes.  A couple of points:  I had the pleasure of visiting PR for about ten days last year and found that they are very passionate about their politics.  There are two main, and one minor, factions.  And there's only one issue:  The status of the Commonwealth.  In brief, a slim majority (about 52%) favor the status quo (commonwealth of the united states).  The big minority (about 45%) prefer statehood.  And a very tiny fraction on the extreeeeeeeem right (or left, depending on your preference, as they are composed of both very rich and very poor) favor complete independence.  In short, most of the know they have it made!  All the protection of being a US territory (SS benefits, Army/Navy protections, benefits, etc.) with none of the commitments.  By the way, if you do the research you'll find that slim majority has been fairly constant in 7 or 8 referenda over the past 40 years!  They know a good deal when they see it.  If I had the option of getting social security and the blanket of protection afforded by the USA, but didn't have to pay taxes, you can bet your skinny white ass I'd take it too!

[angus]

what the hell?!  when did you become a Democrat??

[angus]

NO way.  Too Democratic.  I'd rather make them 'independent'.

You would refuse to give them statehood because they would give the Democrats 3 ECs?

That's our Opebo. He is consistently immoral.

I would suggest that he is consistently amoral.  

But it is true that Democrats outnumber Republicans 8 to 1, or thereabouts.  I think both those groups are smaller than Governor Calderon's Commonwealth Party.  But htmldon makes a good point, states were admitted in pairs in the 1820s, why not now?  In order to get the PR statehood through, we could admit both PR and Cuba with 3 votes each to balance each other out.  That assumes either would want statehood, of course.  And I think PR definitely has a better deal already.  Cuba obviously does not.

[angus]

   yeah, I wondered whether that was intentional.

What's the rule on admission?  You give new states a number of votes equal to the number of votes of the least populous one until a census can be made.  So any newly admitted state would get 3 votes right off the bat.  That would be adjusted in the first decennial census after admission.  Is that correct?

[angus]

Yes, persons born in the US Commonwealth of Puerto Rico are United States citizens.  They carry US passports and are subject to the rights and priveleges and duties of all US citizens, with the exception that they do not have voting representation in congress and no votes for President.  (They send a non-voting delegate to Washington, like DC, VI, and Guam).

[angus]

That's what the opposition to the Commonwealth Party always reminds them of when trying to convince them to vote for statehood.  Obviously those words carry more meaning in Virginia and Massachusetts than in San Juan.  And well they should, since they don't have to pay certain taxes, including social security, but are allowed to receive all benefits.  As you can see, statehood is a tough sell.

[angus]

And they are high!  For a fifty dollar hotel room, expect the bill to be around sixty-eight dollars.

[angus]

Yes they definitely get enumerated by the census bureau:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/dmd01cprs.pdf
http://www.census.gov/mso/www/pres_lib/hisorig/sld021.htm

In 2000, they counted about 3.8 million people in PR, a little less than South Carolina and a little more than Oregon.

But the question is, when a new state is admitted, do they immediately give it the 'right number' of votes?  or do they just give it 3 and wait for the next decennial census to give it the correct number?

[angus]

But the question is, when a new state is admitted, do they immediately give it the 'right number' of votes?  or do they just give it 3 and wait for the next decennial census to give it the correct number?

I can prove this is not true just by looking at some of Dave's old election maps.  If this were true, for the first election after being admitted as a state, a new state would invariably have 3 EV- unless the year of admission was XXX9, and the next election was XXX2, such that a Census actually took place between being admitted as a state and that state's first election.  Anyways, it doesn't hold true, states have often had 4 EV in their first election.

Hey that's right.  okay, I'm satisfied.  Then PR would have around six congressmen and two senators.  And eight votes for president right off the bat.  I suppose adding eight to the total makes more sense than redistribution of votes without a census, so the total would then be 546.

So the 283-255 Bush win would be a 283-263 Bush if PR were a state in 2004.

[angus]

I think that's why DC isn't a state.  DC, unlike PR, has repeatedly shown a willingness to become one, but the republicans won't stand for it.  So, ultimately, it isn't a matter of convincing the Commonwealth Party of PR to change its mind, it's a matter of the GOP making enough inroads into the PR community to get some traction there and swing about half their voters to the Dark Side.

[angus]

Statesrights and Lunar,
I think that's a good suggestion.  It satisfies their right for congressional representation.  600000 people add up to about one extra representative and one extra electoral vote for maryland.  But would it require that the district be annexed completely to maryland?  (or as statesrights points out, returned to its original status as part of maryland)