Liberty v Security

[angus]

In the wake of the recent terrorist attacks in the United Kingdom, Tony Blair has announced new powers for the government in tackling terrorism. Is it more important that we breach civil liberties in an atttempt to maintain security or is it more important that we maintain civil liberties and the rule of law?

an excellent question.  I have long argued herein that liberty and security are mutually orthogonal constructs.  Americans, for example prefer the liberty of maintaining private medical care, while spaniards, for example, are so addicted to the security of state-funded medical care that, according to one spaniard who lived next door to me for many years, people in Spain would riot in the streets at any hint of government removing this security.  Of course, along with the freedom to get rich comes the freedom to starve, or, as Port Arthur, Texas native and filthy whore Janis Joplin used to sing:  Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.  Well, I digress, since you were speaking of national security rather than economic security.  But I contend that the mutual orthogonality constraint still hold.  For every bit of security you attain, you must surrendur a bit of liberty.  Well, you know how I feel, as I've posted it long enough.  Open borders means free trade means a better life for all.  No gun control.  Decriminalize drugs and prostitution.  And keep your filthy government hands off my private health insurance.  I'll take my chances in a free world. 

"Those who surrender liberty in the name of security deserve neither"
  ---Benjamin Franklin (on one of those rare occasions when he wasn't drunk and buried up to his cheeks in some French whore's twat.)

You said it, Ben!

[angus]

ha!  yes you do!  well, I never get direct quotes quite right exactly.

an interesting irony is that during the so-called Dark Ages on the European continent and in Great Britian, the arabs led the world in medicine and science and technology.  It's no coincidence that so many of our modern science words begin with the definite article al known to speakers of both surviving semitic languages, arabic and hebrew.  I.e., aldehyde, alcohol, algebra, alkaline, and acid (yes, that's the alluded form, written alif laam, but pronounced with a "silent" laam in both semitic languages).  But those white bastards, religiofascists you might say, just to bring a modern phrase full circle, came from England and what would later be Germany, with their crusades and warring in the name of some notion of a commanding god, martyrdom, and guaranteed entrance to paradise upon death.  So the great universities of Cairo, Baghdad, and Syria closed their doors.  Circled the wagons, as it were.  In a fit of paranoia brought on by visions of Security, the great arabic speaking scientists of the middle east were left in insular solitude.  And their science and technology and culture suffered for it. 

Kind of ironic now that the tables are turned.  That in the interest of national security and fear from religiofascism we european peoples are closing our borders and universities from the semitic peoples of the levant and the arabian peninsula.  You'd think such a stunning historical example would show us exactly what not to do, but paranoia is a stronger motivator than precedent, I suppose.

[angus]

Neither do I.  But the irony is delicious isn't it?  Or at least the coincidence, I should say, since there are posters here who bristle at inexact use of the word irony.

[angus]

And another thing I recently learned...just like "occidental" is a loan-translation of "maghrebine" and "palestinian" is the same word as "philistine", "arabian" and "european" is etymologically the same word too...both just mean "westerner", the one in Phoenician, the other in Arabic.

yeah, but it starts with the letter Faw in arabic, and not a PH, so it's Falestine, which may either be rendered philistine or palestine in greco-roman.

also, I was never sure whether, in proper english, it's pronounced as Palestayn (last syllable rhyming with Ayn as in Ayn Rand) or Palesteeeen (last syllable rhyming with Bruce Springsteen).   Can any english majors confirm the correct pronunciation for me?