was killing police officers in apartheid South Africa justified?

[angus]

Of course. Conservatives whine that the ANC did this, but what was wrong? The cops job was to enforce apartheid. There is absolutely no difference between this and killing SS officers in Germany or occupied France.

...or the american revolution.

actually, by every single *objective* United Nations standard, South Africa is a far worse place than during apartheid.

"freedom's just another word for Nothin' Left to Lose."
  --Janis Joplin

That said, I'd have done the same thing probably.  You can't really hold it against people for killing cops.  I don't.  do you?

[angus]

no, what is it?

there's an interesting article about SA and it's fall from roughly middle HDI to clearly third-world since the fall of the Afrikaner from political power in a recent issue of National Geographic. 

"Be Careful what you wish for" is what itt's called.  I'll see if I can find the particular issue.

[angus]

It's a very tough issue.  I remember seeing the movie "The Power of One"  In fact, I have to say it was one of the most moving, and saddest, movies I'd ever seen.  Ditto for "A Dry White Season"  I remember being happy, everyone being glad, about Mandela's freedom and egalitarianism sweeping Eastern Europe, South Africa, and all the rest.  Ah, those heady days of the end of the cold war and "freedoms" it wrought.  But, unfortunately for all South Africans, it's not gone as planned.  Actually, I was amazed, not just surprised, amazed, to see NGM do an article addressing this important and sensitive phenomenon, as it was growing rather PC through the 90s, but remember there was a change of editorial staff recently.  I forget exactly when.  There were a series of articles about mistreatment by the corrupt governments of the descendants of the European settlers by the Zulu and others, and the subsequent mass migration to Europe and the USA by those white refugees, not only from SA, but from neighboring nations as well.  Clearly it's a double-edged sword.  No one wants to see a small minority of German, Dutch, and French Protestant overlords opressing an indigenous South African People.  But then no Westerner wants to see the fall of a fairly productive nation into the sort of despair that prooves excellent breeding ground for the sort of hate and deceptions that spawn authoritarian Leftism.  I really offer no solutions nor alternatives, only commentary.  But it's clearly a shame.  And not what Mandela would have wanted.  I say that as someone whose political compass score is about exactly on top of Mandela as one can possibly be.  Well, be careful what you wish for!

[angus]

yes, bob, actually I did very much.  but I have to admit (true story) that a really hot chinese girl from Cleveland with a navel ring (first I'd ever encountered) was giving me a long slow blow job while it was on.  We'd rented it together.  Of course, I watched it again a few years later without distraction and enjoyed it again, but perhaps my associations were a bit skewed from the first viewing.  anyway, yes, I thought it was very moving. 

Was it the misrepresentation of the sport of Boxing that put you off?  because I think that's really the way it was in SA in those days.

[angus]

"Lord, I wish I could be peacful
But there can be no sequel
Now freedom must be fundamental
In Johannesburg or South Central"

From Township Rebellion by Rage Against the Machine

(with apologies to Milk and Cereal)


Like opebo, I object to objective morality, and thus the term justified, and I admit that I'd probably do the same, as I've said before.  But I think I have a hard time saying I support killing cops, or anyone else.  I guess you're asking whether I'd vote to convict these people of Murder 2 (or murder 3?) if I were on the jury?  The answer is:  I don't know.  Clearly there were some mitigating circumstances.  Clearly they are murderers.  It's really not an easy call.  If you think it is, then you probably shouldn't be on that jury to begin with.