Who was more left-wing: Teddy Roosevelt or Grover Cleveland? (user search)
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  Who was more left-wing: Teddy Roosevelt or Grover Cleveland? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Who was more left-wing?
#1
Teddy Roosevelt
 
#2
Grover Cleveland
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 29

Author Topic: Who was more left-wing: Teddy Roosevelt or Grover Cleveland?  (Read 1549 times)
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 90,419
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17

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« on: May 31, 2023, 10:31:00 AM »
« edited: May 31, 2023, 10:35:02 AM by Mr.Barkari Sellers »

Something that is both very interesting and very pertinent to his topic, is that Theodore Roosevelt (who at that point in time was just as unambiguously to the left of the median Republican politician as he was both before and after that point in time) strongly considering voting for Cleveland in 1884, but decided against it only so that he would more likely be able to climb the ranks of the Republican Party in his career afterwards. (If anything, this would suggest that Teddy lied between Cleveland and the Republican Party's corpus on any "left-right" political spectrum.)

Also, Teddy was unambiguously more "imperialist" and less liberal-internationalist than Cleveland.
Maybe he secretly did vote for Cleveland when he actually voted then.

Maybe, although the secret ballot wasn't universally implemented in POTUS elections until after 1888 IIRC.

I am not exactly sure of the time frame, but I think it was in reaction to some of the actions that took place in one of those elections.

Prior to that you just slipped sheets of paper into the ballot box with the candidates printed on it, and many times the paper ballots were color differentiated, making it rather obvious who you voted for.

This was a factor in the voter intimidation and suppression that occurred in the 1870s as well.

Jim Crow wasn't just about Separate but equal it was about Chain Gangs no Public Defender or Miranda rights until 1960 1789/1865 slavery and Chain Gangs 1865/1955 since most blks were in the S until 1948 where blks moved to LA, SF and NY, Chi they were put into prison by Dixiecrats judges for whistling at white females that's why Emmif Till was lynched he was too young for jail

Since Grover Cleveland he appointed Melville's Fuller to SCOTUS whom affirmed Separate but Equal he was more Conserv but a Dixiecrats Conserv not R Conserv, Jim Justice was a Robert Byrd Dixiecrat in 2016 and turned R in 2019


You put Populist in front of  Dixiecrats no Judicial Review Judicial Restraint but compassionate Conserv in front of R for Judicial Review
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 90,419
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17

P P P

« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2023, 01:17:50 PM »
« Edited: May 31, 2023, 01:58:31 PM by Mr.Barkari Sellers »

Something that is both very interesting and very pertinent to his topic, is that Theodore Roosevelt (who at that point in time was just as unambiguously to the left of the median Republican politician as he was both before and after that point in time) strongly considering voting for Cleveland in 1884, but decided against it only so that he would more likely be able to climb the ranks of the Republican Party in his career afterwards. (If anything, this would suggest that Teddy lied between Cleveland and the Republican Party's corpus on any "left-right" political spectrum.)

Also, Teddy was unambiguously more "imperialist" and less liberal-internationalist than Cleveland.
Maybe he secretly did vote for Cleveland when he actually voted then.

Maybe, although the secret ballot wasn't universally implemented in POTUS elections until after 1888 IIRC.

I am not exactly sure of the time frame, but I think it was in reaction to some of the actions that took place in one of those elections.

Prior to that you just slipped sheets of paper into the ballot box with the candidates printed on it, and many times the paper ballots were color differentiated, making it rather obvious who you voted for.

This was a factor in the voter intimidation and suppression that occurred in the 1870s as well.

Jim Crow wasn't just about Separate but equal it was about Chain Gangs no Public Defender or Miranda rights until 1960 1789/1865 slavery and Chain Gangs 1865/1955 since most blks were in the S until 1948 where blks moved to LA, SF and NY, Chi they were put into prison by Dixiecrats judges for whistling at white females that's why Emmif Till was lynched he was too young for jail

Since Grover Cleveland he appointed Melville's Fuller to SCOTUS whom affirmed Separate but Equal he was more Conserv but a Dixiecrats Conserv not R Conserv, Jim Justice was a Robert Byrd Dixiecrat in 2016 and turned R in 2019


You put Populist in front of  Dixiecrats no Judicial Review Judicial Restraint but compassionate Conserv in front of R for Judicial Review

This thread was not about all the ins and outs of segregation and just because something isn't mentioned by necessity of being focused, doesn't mean it isn't known or isn't being considered.

The topic of the voting process came up, and it was relevant to mention an extra level of problematic that this system and process facilitated at the time.

I just wanted to remind you why do you think Rs overperformrned prior to Trump Era 20. McCain ran in 2000/2004 on McCain and Feingold and was on the ballot with Bush W in 2004/2016 with Trump it's no question Chris Shays, John McCain and Rob Simmons in H and S had Moderate Rs in place that's why the kept the H 12 yrs 1994/2006 and 2011/2018 and won the Prez 2000/2004/2016


Justice ALITO altered McCain Feingold im 2010,0with Citizens United in 2010 that's why Rs won again in 2011

McCain lost to Obama because he picked Maga Palin whom endorsed Maga Trump, when McCain died and Rs could not long win AZ because Compassionate Conserv John McCain died that went the R majority

We lost 3 liberal lions JFK, Bobby and Teddy Kennedy and the Reagan Revolution came and if Teddy Kennedy wouldn't have died Brown wouldn't have won MA

McCain was a compassionate Conserv due to he was pro EPA like Nixon was no oil drillingg on Fed land only on continental shelf due to Wildfires in AZ, what was Teddy Roosevelt he was an Environmentalist

The Rs can't win the Prez without AZ because it's 10 EC votes that make up WI and GA makes up 16 votes for PA wave insurance

And YOUNGKIN has fallen Rs were ahead of Biden in VA but in POS polls they are now behind Biden in VA

Not mention the trouble Rs are in FL, NC, OH and TX. Allred, Kunce, Brown, Tester and GALLEGO have better Approvals than Rosedale, Lake, Dolen, Hawley and Cruz


The only one that has net positive Approvals are Scott and Jim Justice in red states Hawley and Cruz are stuck at 45 why they are Maga Jim Talent and Roy Blunt weren't Maga


Users  think that DeSantis and Trump are gonna win, no they won't because McCain held up the R party from being Maga he died in 2018 it's fully maga now since J6 since Don Jr is in Sean Hannity taken the reigns of Rs it makes it worse for Rs not better Don Jr doesn't appeal to blks they aren't winning WI, PAvand MI with 9% of the blk vote you need 20% as an R like Bush H winning 1988 Trump won them on Gary Johnson split vote only in 2016 with McCain

That's why Rs just lost WI by 11 in judge race and PA state legislature special Edays

cc KS Eisenhower beat S Stevenson
cc CA Nixon beat HHH not Humphrey
cc MI Ford
cc AZ McCain
cc CT Shays.
cc NH Judd Gregg
cc CA Schwarzenegger beat S Davis
cc PA Specter

All predated died or  retired before J,6 2020

Kerry was overperformrned Bush W, Gore almost won FL and Hillary almost beat Trump why  because McCain was on the AZ ballot in AZ 2004/2016 and Kerry was winning but Bush W came back after Reagan funeral because he had Edwards not gravitas Wes Clark or Gephardt , that's why Obama picked Biden not Evan Bayh gravitas
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