Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1184310135289798656

Haven't seen the context, but it sounds like he's referring to the fact that all three of those women represent urban districts, and Dems need rural appeal right now.

Even if that's not what he meant, the skepticism towards his word choice here is somewhat justified because "urban" often subliminally suggests minority status.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1184310135289798656

Haven't seen the context, but it sounds like he's referring to the fact that all three of those women represent urban districts, and Dems need rural appeal right now.

Even if that's not what he meant, the skepticism towards his word choice here is somewhat justified because "urban" often subliminally suggests minority status.

I fully understand the connotations, but I think giving the benefit of the doubt is warranted here. I just watched the video and I stand by my earlier post. In fact, his comment was even tamer than I thought. He's referring to Democratic strategy and how they're relying too heavily on turnout in the cities.

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1184310135289798656

Haven't seen the context, but it sounds like he's referring to the fact that all three of those women represent urban districts, and Dems need rural appeal right now.

Even if that's not what he meant, the skepticism towards his word choice here is somewhat justified because "urban" often subliminally suggests minority status.

I fully understand the connotations, but I think giving the benefit of the doubt is warranted here. I just watched the video and I stand by my earlier post. In fact, his comment was even tamer than I thought. He's referring to Democratic strategy and how they're relying too heavily on turnout in the cities.

Sure, speaking for myself I'm not particularly bothered by this, but I am just pointing out why some others might be and that it isn't entirely knee-jerk, even as there might be some of it, as always.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Well in some related news, Bernie is holding a rally in Minneapolis on November 3rd. I figured I’d attend since he probably won’t be back to Minnesota for a while.

I wonder if BRTD will attend?

It would make my life if he recorded himself ending up talking to Sanders and asking him about his thoughts on 'Family Guy', the Krassensteins, and various t-shirts he's seen on the internet.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Yeah, it depends.

 For instance, if Warren is the nominee, with the exception of jfern and Shadows types, I fully expect Sanders' base to back her and be at least somewhat enthusiastic about her. She may not be their first choice, but they seem to still like her. That's one reason why, even as I am still not behind any candidate 100%, of the top three candidates I am the most favorable towards Warren-she seems like the best candidate to keep the Democratic Party united.

If it's Biden, I expect them to turn up their nose and rationalize that another four years of Trump will somehow be more worthwhile than a Biden presidency because midterms or whatever. Biden definitely looks like the most likely candidate to pick up a lot of Sanders' exclusively anti-Clinton ancestral Democratic vote from the 2016 primaries though.

Sanders overall has been at least somewhat less divisive this time though, so he will probably make more of an effort of backing the nominee that isn't him sooner and with more gusto in an effort to get his base to support them in the general election, especially if it's Warren.

I'm not going to bother going through the other candidates since they basically have no chance at the nomination.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Love to see the liberals running scared; whenever Sanders does well they always pile into this thread. Tremendous!

The liberals are the enemy now? It used to just be the centrists, establishment, moderates, and neoliberals; but now even regular liberals aren't pure enough?

I'm sorry to be pedantic here, but pick a different word.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Love to see the liberals running scared; whenever Sanders does well they always pile into this thread. Tremendous!

The liberals are the enemy now? It used to just be the centrists, establishment, moderates, and neoliberals; but now even regular liberals aren't pure enough?

I'm sorry to be pedantic here, but pick a different word.

A good chunk of AOTA here seem to be identifying themselves as liberal, while doing pathetically little to live up the very moniker.

It's really no surprise then those who were proud liberals even as the GOP worked overnight in the '80's to Order 66 the whole idea would be disgusted by the idea of these chickens would hijack the term.

Liberals increasingly is what Moderate/Centrist were back then, all because now, and rightly so might I add, Moderation and Centrism are seen negatively. So where does that leave the ones who stood by during the ideological purge? No wonder Socialism, Social Democracy, and Progressive are the keywords now!

Oh, and that's without the European/Aussie senses of the word coming into play.

I can understand all that, but it's still probably the most mainstream term for those left of center.  I would identify as a progressive (as evident by my username) just because the term liberal here doesn't mean what it does elsewhere, but here in the United States, pejorative or not, it's still how most categorize people with left wing sensibilities overall.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Worth pointing out that at this moment it feels like Sanders has his best chance at being the nominee both this cycle and for the 2016 cycle. Biden is still barely the frontrunner, but Sanders being the Democratic nominee is a stronger possibility every day.

If he wins Iowa and New Hampshire watch the party elite absolutely melt down.

I doubt that. Biden's southern wall is looking pretty sturdy.

[Progressive Pessimist]

.
I will vote Bernie if it somehow turns into Trump vs Sanders in 2020, but I will vote GOP for any House/Senate race in 2022 if Bernie wins just to keep this guy (and more importantly, his followers, in check)

The mask comes off. You're no different from our garden-variety blue avatars.

Because I don’t want a mad-cultist having control of the House and the Senate?
This isn’t even about policy, this is about the fact that I can’t, in good conscious, give this man more power. These are the same reasons I will never support Trump, no matter how good the economy is, or if he suddenly changes his positions.

I can understand seeing the personality-driven support around Sanders as similar to Trump's, but in the end Sanders still promotes the better ideas and policy for the country. Furthermore, to want to impede a potential President Sanders with a GOP controlled Congress is only being as self-defeating as you see Sanders' persona as. You're ignoring how diverse the Democratic Party actually is ideologically, especially down-ballot. It doesn't sound like you genuinely care about progress and pursuing what's right if you can't get past your spite for Sanders. And that goes for any Democrat, left-leaner, or Trump/GOP opponent with any candidate.

[Progressive Pessimist]

.
I will vote Bernie if it somehow turns into Trump vs Sanders in 2020, but I will vote GOP for any House/Senate race in 2022 if Bernie wins just to keep this guy (and more importantly, his followers, in check)

The mask comes off. You're no different from our garden-variety blue avatars.

Because I don’t want a mad-cultist having control of the House and the Senate?
This isn’t even about policy, this is about the fact that I can’t, in good conscious, give this man more power. These are the same reasons I will never support Trump, no matter how good the economy is, or if he suddenly changes his positions.

I can understand seeing the personality-driven support around Sanders as similar to Trump's, but in the end Sanders still promotes the better ideas and policy for the country. Furthermore, to want to impede a potential President Sanders with a GOP controlled Congress is only being as self-defeating as you see Sanders' persona as. You're ignoring how diverse the Democratic Party actually is ideologically, especially down-ballot. It doesn't sound like you genuinely care about progress and pursuing what's right if you can't get past your spite for Sanders. And that goes for any Democrat, left-leaner, or Trump/GOP opponent with any candidate.

Oh, absolutely. The guy should be treated like the traitor he is. He may not be supporting Trump, but McConnell is as dangerous as Trump and done as much damage to our democracy (if not more). The fact that he hates Bernie so much he'd be willing to give him a third chance is deeply, deeply disturbing.

1. I am willing to give Sanders a chance, I will vote straight blue in 2020 anyways. Sanders may be dangerous, but Trump is worse.
2. If Sanders proves me wrong, I will happily vote blue in 2022.
3.  I don’t support the turtle, but if Sanders truly is as dangerous as I predict, it will be a necessary evil.

There we go. That's all anyone needed to hear.

Sanders is not Trump though. I am not his biggest fan either, but I can assure you that just because he has a devoted base of followers in common, potentially to a fault, doesn't mean that he is inevitably inclined to act as temperamentally as Trump does.

Just take a deep breath and vote for who you want in the primary for now. We'll see where it all goes soon enough.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I don't hate Bernie Sanders, and I will support him if he is nominated, but Shumlin is kind of right here. I have never been able to stomach the personality-driven politics that is often considered "populist" of the past few years. Trump is an example of that and Sanders has always come across that way as well. I don't think it's healthy, and I do wonder what it would mean for the party under his potential leadership of it.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I would love it if true Trumpist Republicans forsake the primary in their party for this and allow Weld to squeak by in some states.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I would love it if true Trumpist Republicans forsake the primary in their party for this and allow Weld to squeak by in some states.

You would also love it if Trump lost states like Indiana and Tennessee in the general, which has the same probability as the scenario you just outlined.

I know. That's why I would love it. Most things that make me happy are impossible to happen...

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'm not going to go in on Rogan and the perceived controversies surrounding him, but I will agree that it is kind of odd for Sanders to be touting Rogan's endorsement as if he is some kind of hero. He's an entertainer, nothing more, nothing less.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'm not going to go in on Rogan and the perceived controversies surrounding him, but I will agree that it is kind of odd for Sanders to be touting Rogan's endorsement as if he is some kind of hero. He's an entertainer, nothing more, nothing less.

An entertainer with a lot of crossover appeal, which pretty useful when your opposition is trying to stamp you in as communist or "out-of-touch".

I get it. But to me it almost comes across like a punchline to spell out his endorsement in a quote and then end in "-Joe Rogan" as if he got Gandhi's endorsement or something.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/NYTnickc/status/1221797847743582219

Well this is...something.

I thought right wingers wanted Sanders to get the nomination.

[Progressive Pessimist]

On the plus side.....Bloomberg is indicating he will be supporting Sanders:

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1224069194830041089?s=19

Very good news! I hope he supports down-ballot Democrats too.

Say what you want about Bloomberg, but he really seems to have his priorities straight when it comes to wanting to defeat Trump and the GOP. We all should maintain that goal.

[Progressive Pessimist]

And the Bernie Sanders closing argument is to get a man who proudly voted for Jill Stein

Er, why do you say this as if it's a bad thing? The Democrats lose if they don't win over any 2016 third party voters...

If we want to sell out to woo a bunch of assholes to our side then we should nominate Ted Cruz.

Wait, are you saying that if Ted Cruz was the Democratic nominee you wouldn't vote for him? What kind of party loyalist are you? I swear, you Biden Bros are always trying to sow division.

Honestly, I would probably vote for Cruz over Trump. He's beyond awful but he wouldn't inspire a cult, destroy the very fabric of the country, and be able to get away with what Trump does.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Tom Steyer here with the first legitimate anti-Sanders ad of the cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Poe11xuJ4&feature=emb_logo

Somewhat unexpected considering how much esteem Steyer seems to have for Sanders.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Pete wins Iowa
Bernie Bros: Bernie won Iowa
Bernie wins NH
Bernie Bros: Winning is winning, only the Bernie can claim victory

I am by no means a Bernie Bro, but Buttigieg winning the SDE measure by the skin of his teeth yet losing the popular vote, doesn't make it that much of a stretch to consider Sanders the real winner there.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/1229108306351984641?s=20

Oh no, Bernie Sanders said that the Moscow subway stations were "absolutely beautiful."



Whereas anyone with good American taste much prefers the NYC subway stations. I mean, this looks so much nicer, doesn't it?:

While definitely an improvement over the New York City subway stations, the Moscow ones are still a bit too garish for my tastes.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I think it could definitely hurt. But then again, maybe most Americans will realize that his proposals will never happen and therefore may not care. American voters don't really care about policy as much as we think anyway.

But yes, he opens himself to major criticism on this from the GOP.

I see no benefit to this unless somehow people appreciate Sanders' honesty. Maybe he'll be as impervious to criticism in the general election as he has in the primary. That's pretty unfair to Warren if that's the case because she was almost devastatingly criticized for finding ways not to raise taxes on the middle class for her proposals.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I knew this primary would be weird but I would never have believed a year ago that the race could possibly come down to two former non-Democratic Jewish men in their late 70's.

That said, Sanders supporters really shouldn't fear a Bloomberg nomination. If anything, he helps Sanders win the nomination more easily.