Joe Biden 2020 campaign megathread v2

[Progressive Pessimist]

I think people make the mistake of solely attributing Hillary's loss to her and gender and thinking Biden would be better off. A large part of her loss was because her long record in politics where she carried a lot of baggage and scandals. The constant flip flopping over the years on issues she had to evolve on made her look untrustworthy. Candidates with long voting record and decades in office are often the politicians voters hate the most.

Clinton didn't lose entirely because of her sex, but there is no denying that Biden being a male makes him less vulnerable to the inherent biases that some have towards female politicians. I have yet to hear anyone call Biden "untrustworthy" for instance.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This is the opening that Trump needs to stop Biden's momentum.  Biden had huge momentum over Trump, once again Biden made another gaffe

Honestly, I don't see this being as harmful for Biden in a general election as it will be for him in the primary. It definitely isn't helping him in any way, but the media cycle by the time he wins the nomination (if he does) will be well beyond this. Trump isn't the only one who can advantage of Americans' short attention spans and memories.

[Progressive Pessimist]

This is the opening that Trump needs to stop Biden's momentum.  Biden had huge momentum over Trump, once again Biden made another gaffe

Honestly, I don't see this being as harmful for Biden in a general election as it will be for him in the primary. It definitely isn't helping him in any way, but the media cycle by the time he wins the nomination (if he does) will be well beyond this. Trump isn't the only one who can advantage of Americans' short attention spans and memories.

Couldn't Trump use it to deflect accusations of him being racist?

Yes, but I don't think it would deter people of color from turning out as much as he might think, because it's Trump we're talking about here.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Not sure if this type of story will get any traction, but I could see a few Dems going after this: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/joe-biden-has-made-millions-since-leaving-vice-presidency-moved-into-5m-mansion-report

If they did it to Clinton, they should do it to Biden.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Not sure if this type of story will get any traction, but I could see a few Dems going after this: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/joe-biden-has-made-millions-since-leaving-vice-presidency-moved-into-5m-mansion-report

If they did it to Clinton, they should do it to Biden.

I and many other skilled political operatives will do our best to make sure that Bye-Done is even more unpopular than Hilldawg, should he be the nominee

That's a foregone conclusion right there. It's Trump's best tactic.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I don't know how anyone can look at Biden confidently as the one to take on Trump. He looked so weak on stage and was stumbling over his words half of the time even borderline slurring them.

I noticed it more towards the second half of the debate. For the first half I think he was doing fine. But after Harris drew blood he became more incoherent and exhausted sounding. This was striking to me since what I most wanted out of his debate performance was some sort of reassurance that he indeed would be the best candidate to take on Trump as he and early polling keep suggesting. Naturally, I was displeased, and am now convinced that we need to roll the dice with one of the female candidates to be our nominee-Harris or Warren in particular. I know that he can't help the natural aging process, but Trump and the GOP will surely attack him on that and make it a bigger liability than it already is. Biden seems completely ignorant to the kinds of criticism that he was always going to face, whether it be in the primary or the general election, and that is an immediate red flag. Even Hillary Clinton who what the GOP was going to throw at her, whether she fended those criticisms off effectively or not is another story, one way or the other though she was much better prepared. However, Biden is still a white male, so he has that going for him, and I don't think the debate will cause an outright collapse that takes him out of the lead, but it certainly puts him in a weaker position. He is probably intent on recovering though, so we'll see how the July debates go. Another bad performance might be what cooks his goose.

As I see it, his time as a strong candidate is over, and it is abundantly clear that his polling and support was based out of name recognition, being an established public figure, and very little else (this applies to Sanders too, whose performance I was also bothered by, but at least he came across as barely more competent with his rebuttals). Biden should be nothing more than a surrogate to the eventual nominee. I wanted to give him a chance, but he is not who we need to lead the party at this point in time.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I feel like Joe is way more vulnerable on abortion than on the busing stuff which is totally irrelevant today. He's literally on record trashing Roe and calling abortion a tragedy in addition to voting for the Hyde Amendment. That would've been far more salient than some issue that mattered 40 years ago.

If he is in the July debate with Gillibrand, I can just see her pulling a Harris on him over Hyde. I expect a lot more confrontation in future debates, in general. It's a tactic that has been working to the favor of the instigator so far.

[Progressive Pessimist]

looks like Biden's held his lead, though he lost a few points. Hopefully, he gets his sh**t together for the July debates.

Considering the post-debate polls, he'd be foolish not to. Another performance like that might be what it takes for him to drop from first place. It can definitely happen.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Personally I think there is a distinction between "opposing busing as a failed policy" and "working with the worst racists in the senate to draft anti-busing legislation as one of your top priorities".

Had Biden just voted in favour of an anti-busing bill when it came up I think it would have been much less of an issue, at least to me.

And that's exactly the point Harris was making. Everyone needs to chill the f*** out with re-litigating busing and thinking that somehow it's become an integral part of Harris' agenda. It was an example of Biden's lack of perspective, that's all.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Biden's anti single payer crud is despicable. He's attacking Harris for supporting a bill that's not even that radical and would take 10 years to get MFA! Does he really care more about Obama's "Legacy" then people in this country that don't have healthcare? It's sickening.(BTW, Obama supports MFA Uncle Joe!). I know voting Green is not really productive but I'm going to have a very hard time voting for him in the general

Kamala disappointed me in that exchange! She let him gaslight and be disingenuous about the costs. She needs to tighten that up considering she'll be on the stage with him/Warren/Sanders next time.

Anyway-- Biden really said "Go to Joe 30330" LOL.

But yeah he's going to dismantle Trump on the debate stage.

 

Trump was a total moron in the October debates, and he won.

The country has become so partisan where general election debates don't matter anymore. After the first debate last time I thought Trump came off as so stupid I thought he'd lose in a 88 type landslide.

I actually think they only matter for a Democrat. Biden needs to defeat Trump like Clinton did for his sake. It won't harm Trump in the long-term, but it will spare Biden (or whatever other Democrat) from negative headlines. Trump meanwhile can afford to be considered the loser of the debates again. He was and probably still is a terrible debater, but Biden shouldn't take any chances to be perceived how he was against Harris. That's a large part of what this election may come down to, who gets the worse headlines and when, much like in 2016. These are how elections work now in the Trump era.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Am I the only one who doesn't think this type of stuff is necessarily indicative of cognitive decline? Biden has been well known for almost his entire career for being a "gaffe machine".

It's not going to be a gaffe when Fox News and Trump get to it. It's going to be: "do we need a President with an expiration date!?"

[Progressive Pessimist]

See Biden's emotional message to grieving families.

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden spoke in deeply personal terms about the family tragedies he has endured in an emotional reflection following two mass shootings in the US that have left at least 31 dead.

Click here to watch ... https://us.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/08/06/joe-biden-grief-shootings-intv-sot-vp-ac360.cnn

I saw this last night - he interviews well. I'd feel more confident in him if he was better at debates and on the trail. For me this is easily his best moment this year.

This is the kind of stuff that people want in times of grief and discord.  Biden is excellent at this (as was Clinton--who was a master of debates and on the trail as well).

It's why I think he needs to start talking more personally about issues, health care in particular. I feel that Biden could evoke a lot of sympathy with voters when he talks about Beau's death. If he can relate those consistently to Democrats' top issue, health care, in a manner that doesn't come across as manipulative, it could be a good tactic on the campaign trail and in debates and could even disarm Trump and his usual cruelty. Biden hasn't really done that yet though.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I’m not saying he’s having health issues, but the Trump campaign will inevitably decry the gaffes as emblematic Of health issues in a similar way to what they did in their campaign against Hillary.

Exactly! That's the issue here. I believe that Biden is still up to the task of being President, but these mistakes do not inspire that much confidence in people who will be quick to be influenced by Trump and the GOP campaigning against him in this way.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Say what you want about ageism, but when the GOP find a way to scare people about it when it comes to Biden, it won't be such an unreasonable concern. It's a massive liability for Biden, whether it's rational or not. This country's voters are never rational. I mean really, Clinton getting pneumonia and using a lumbar support pillow made people skeptical of her health. He better get all of these mistakes out of the way now, because they will doom him (and the country by extension) if he has them at this rate in the general election, especially as election day draws closer.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Say what you want about ageism, but when the GOP find a way to scare people about it when it comes to Biden, it won't be such an unreasonable concern. It's a massive liability for Biden, whether it's rational or not. This country's voters are never rational. I mean really, Clinton getting pneumonia and using a lumbar support pillow made people skeptical of her health. He better get all of these mistakes out of the way now, because they will doom him (and the country by extension) if he has them at this rate in the general election, especially as election day draws closer.

There could be some truth to this. But what I keep hearing over and over again, can be said about any of the other candidates with another "characteristic" or "political trait" that may exist with them. For example, lets use the exact wording as above ...

Say what you want about ageism the socialist-label, but when the GOP find a way to scare people about it when it comes to Biden Warren or Bernie, it won't be such an unreasonable concern. It's a massive liability for Biden Warren or Bernie, whether it's rational or not. This country's voters are never rational.

Do you see how that works? Or do people here want to just pretend (and live in their own Bubble World) that their preferred candidate can't possibly be a victim to a "disadvantage" or "scare tactic by the GOP"?

You'e speaking to the wrong person on this. I am well aware that every candidate will be dragged through the mud by the GOP, even my top two: Harris and Warren. I just think that Biden's age and perceptions of his potential senility will be a more visceral scare tactic that will make Americans fret about his ability to do even the most basic aspects of the job. Biden's age is a constant. He can't reassure people who are convinced that 76 is too old to be elected. And these people will exist. Sanders, and Warren much more so, can at least articulate their policies in ways that can transcend the SOCIALIST *cat screech*  fear-mongering, whether they'll be effective at it or not is another story, but it isn't a losing battle from the get-go.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Say what you want about ageism, but when the GOP find a way to scare people about it when it comes to Biden, it won't be such an unreasonable concern. It's a massive liability for Biden, whether it's rational or not. This country's voters are never rational. I mean really, Clinton getting pneumonia and using a lumbar support pillow made people skeptical of her health. He better get all of these mistakes out of the way now, because they will doom him (and the country by extension) if he has them at this rate in the general election, especially as election day draws closer.

There could be some truth to this. But what I keep hearing over and over again, can be said about any of the other candidates with another "characteristic" or "political trait" that may exist with them. For example, lets use the exact wording as above ...

Say what you want about ageism the socialist-label, but when the GOP find a way to scare people about it when it comes to Biden Warren or Bernie, it won't be such an unreasonable concern. It's a massive liability for Biden Warren or Bernie, whether it's rational or not. This country's voters are never rational.

Do you see how that works? Or do people here want to just pretend (and live in their own Bubble World) that their preferred candidate can't possibly be a victim to a "disadvantage" or "scare tactic by the GOP"?

You'e speaking to the wrong person on this. I am well aware that every candidate will be dragged through the mud by the GOP, even my top two: Harris and Warren. I just think that Biden's age and perceptions of his potential senility will be a more visceral scare tactic that will make Americans fret about his ability to do even the most basic aspects of the job. Biden's age is a constant. He can't reassure people who are convinced that 76 is too old to be elected. And these people will exist. Sanders, and Warren much more so, can at least articulate their policies in ways that can transcend the SOCIALIST *cat screech*  fear-mongering, whether they'll be effective at it or not is another story, but it isn't a losing battle from the get-go.

We have had old/older presidents before. There is nothing new here (with Biden).
And again, using your own wording, but turning-the-table ... Warren or Bernie "can't reassure people who are convinced that 76 is too old their ideas are too 'socialist/communist' to be elected. And these people will exist." For those who are convinced by the GOP-fear-mongering that this label is true and accurate, it will be a "losing battle from the get-go" for Warren or Bernie.

And any attempt by Warren/Bernie to articulate their policies as good for our nation, could be lost, since we know that "whether it's rational or not, this country's voters are never rational."

I don't know, I'm just very uneasy with Biden's recent gaffes over whatever other issues the other candidates have. I just hope for better on the campaign trail in 2020 if he gets the nomination.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Can an Atlas left-winger please tell me what I should say to be politically correct if someone asks me how many genders there are? What's the right answer?

It's a spectrum. It's like asking "how many hair colors are there?"

Nice, that's just vague and ridiculous enough to work on the Berkeley crowd. Thanks.

It's probably the best answer though. Really, asking "how many genders are there?" is a trick question, and politicians should start knowing how to answer it.

[Progressive Pessimist]

He's more fit to serve than Trump. And if worse comes to worse with Biden, there's a reason why we have Vice Presidents. That doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about these types of gaffes of his and how common they seem to be, but that's more out of concern about the election than him holding the position of President.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Oh, come on. You’re trying to give Biden credit for Obama dragging him to the White House?

The Biden-Ryan VP debate was one of the big rebound moments that broke the tie for Obama in 2012.  Who dragged whom?

Biden's debate against Ryan definitely helped, but I think Romney's "47%" gaffe was the real clincher.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Oh, come on. You’re trying to give Biden credit for Obama dragging him to the White House?

The Biden-Ryan VP debate was one of the big rebound moments that broke the tie for Obama in 2012.  Who dragged whom?

Biden's debate against Ryan definitely helped, but I think Romney's "47%" gaffe was the real clincher.

That wasn't a gaffe, he just said in unflattering terms what the Republican Party believes: all poor people are just lazy and choose to live off the dole.

Good point.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I almost wish general election polls this early on didn't exist. They are, or will be, completely irrelevant and do nothing more than to obfuscate the actual discussions that need to be had in this primary.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1166111496641736704

This probably implicates Biden's brother (Billy Carter 2.0?) more than him, but I am anticipating the Republican character assassination machine to try to turn this into his email scandal and end up being successful at it.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1166111496641736704

Wow, on top of the Hunter Biden Ukraine/China issues. He really has used his office to enrich his family.

Aaand my point has been proven.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It's hard to tell. He has been making mistakes almost daily, but he also still maintains support from a base that, quite frankly, doesn't care much. Sure, we had that Monmouth poll, but that might be a huge outlier. I think we'll be able to come to a better consensus on this when the debates start up again and he ends up finally sharing the stage with Warren and others who will try to keep the pressure on him and weaken him before the primary season actually starts. It might work, it might not.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Expect more of this from the GOP, especially Trump if Biden is the nominee:

https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/1164874091679178752

Yep, people forget how effective the health conspiracies were against Hillary. I think it mattered even more than her emails.

It worked on my dad. He said he would no longer vote for Clinton because he doesn't think we should have a President "with an expiration date."