The Official 2020 Census Thread

[Tender Branson]

Here is an update about the online component & security issues in the 2020 Census:

https://www.rollcall.com/news/online-2020-census-faces-cyber-threats-untested-systems

[Tender Branson]

The question in and of itself isn’t the problem. The problem is the manner in which the question was included and what they plan to use said question for.

So, they are planning to use the citizenship data to re-district by citizenship ?

That may sound absurd to many on the Left, but is already practiced in countries such as Germany or Austria.

The number of seats allocated to states or districts for our parliaments is allocated by citizenship and not by the overall number of the population.

After all, voting is only granted to citizens in elections as well ...

You may find that absurd from a leftist point of view, but it would be consistent.

It wouldn't be consistent with the Constitution though, which says the total population must be counted, but does not specify citizenship. If you live somewhere permenantly, you are part of the population.

You are wrong.

You are spinning it as if non-citizens are not counted. That is not the case.

All people in the US are counted in the 2020 Census, citizenship is only a sub-question of the whole census form.

Which means every non-citizen in the US still has the free will and opportunity to be counted. The Democrats just need to stop their fear-based campaign, as well as all the non-citizens who are potentially afraid, because there is nothing to fear. Every non-citizen can easily fill out their census form anonymously over the Internet and none of their data will be forwarded to ICE etc. - because everything is protected under strict privacy laws.

[Tender Branson]

The question in and of itself isn’t the problem. The problem is the manner in which the question was included and what they plan to use said question for.

So, they are planning to use the citizenship data to re-district by citizenship ?

That may sound absurd to many on the Left, but is already practiced in countries such as Germany or Austria.

The number of seats allocated to states or districts for our parliaments is allocated by citizenship and not by the overall number of the population.

After all, voting is only granted to citizens in elections as well ...

You may find that absurd from a leftist point of view, but it would be consistent.

It wouldn't be consistent with the Constitution though, which says the total population must be counted, but does not specify citizenship. If you live somewhere permenantly, you are part of the population.

You are wrong.

You are spinning it as if non-citizens are not counted. That is not the case.

All people in the US are counted in the 2020 Census, citizenship is only a sub-question of the whole census form.

Which means every non-citizen in the US still has the free will and opportunity to be counted. The Democrats just need to stop their fear-based campaign, as well as all the non-citizens who are potentially afraid, because there is nothing to fear. Every non-citizen can easily fill out their census form anonymously over the Internet and none of their data will be forwarded to ICE etc. - because everything is protected under strict privacy laws.

When the president of the united states is out there proclaiming that he's going to send secret police out to round up and deport non-citizens, you don't think that would have an effect on whether those non-citizens would want to answer a census with a question on it identifying them as non-citizens? Perhaps everything is protected under law. That's fine. But if you were a non-citizen, would you place your full confidence in your and your family's well-being on that law?

YES !

As I have said, every person (which includes non-citizens) in the US can easily fill out their census form anonymously over the Internet. The entries are definitely not checked to single out random people or something and Trump can say whatever he wants about immigrants. No information will be used to locate non-citizens for deportation. Otherwise, it would be a breach of law and Trump would be impeached.

And because the Census results are only released in January 2021, it's not even clear if Trump would still be in office then and the next government could reverse such outrageous breach of law deportation orders.

[Tender Branson]

The question in and of itself isn’t the problem. The problem is the manner in which the question was included and what they plan to use said question for.

So, they are planning to use the citizenship data to re-district by citizenship ?

That may sound absurd to many on the Left, but is already practiced in countries such as Germany or Austria.

The number of seats allocated to states or districts for our parliaments is allocated by citizenship and not by the overall number of the population.

After all, voting is only granted to citizens in elections as well ...

You may find that absurd from a leftist point of view, but it would be consistent.

It wouldn't be consistent with the Constitution though, which says the total population must be counted, but does not specify citizenship. If you live somewhere permenantly, you are part of the population.

You are wrong.

You are spinning it as if non-citizens are not counted. That is not the case.

All people in the US are counted in the 2020 Census, citizenship is only a sub-question of the whole census form.

Which means every non-citizen in the US still has the free will and opportunity to be counted. The Democrats just need to stop their fear-based campaign, as well as all the non-citizens who are potentially afraid, because there is nothing to fear. Every non-citizen can easily fill out their census form anonymously over the Internet and none of their data will be forwarded to ICE etc. - because everything is protected under strict privacy laws.

When the president of the united states is out there proclaiming that he's going to send secret police out to round up and deport non-citizens, you don't think that would have an effect on whether those non-citizens would want to answer a census with a question on it identifying them as non-citizens? Perhaps everything is protected under law. That's fine. But if you were a non-citizen, would you place your full confidence in your and your family's well-being on that law?

YES !

As I have said, every person (which includes non-citizens) in the US can easily fill out their census form anonymously over the Internet. The entries are definitely not checked to single out random people or something and Trump can say whatever he wants about immigrants. No information will be used to locate non-citizens for deportation. Otherwise, it would be a breach of law and Trump would be impeached.

And because the Census results are only released in January 2021, it's not even clear if Trump would still be in office then and the next government could reverse such outrageous breach of law deportation orders.

The government right now is not showing much inclination to impeach Trump over breach of law, sadly and patheticly.

Doesn't matter.

What I posted is still true: Non-citizens don't have to be afraid and can easily fill out the forms.

If Trump tries to blatantly break the law by using the confidential Census data to single them out for deportation, a federal court will instantly weigh in and stop such a practice.

[Tender Branson]

Looks like their could be a delay due to the new evidence.

There will certainly be no delay in the ruling just because some MD judge is pissed off.

The SC will rule today, tomorrow or next week already because census forms have to be printed in early July.

[Tender Branson]

Another idea would be to just have everyone boycott the citizenship question, but answer the rest.

Stop advocating for such blatant fraud and unscientific behaviour.

A costly operation like the 10-year census deserves detailed and accurate information by everyone who fills it out.

[Tender Branson]

Looks like their could be a delay due to the new evidence.

There will certainly be no delay in the ruling just because some MD judge is pissed off.

The SC will rule today, tomorrow or next week already because census forms have to be printed in early July.

This isn't just "some MD judge," this is the judge that originally heard the case.

He's one of 5 or so judges who dealt with random census whining cases ...

The SC should not (and very likely will not) consider this whining and go ahead with their ruling.

No need to jeopardize the census operation with a delayed ruling (as I have said, the census forms need to be printed).

[Tender Branson]

FL-Gov. DeSantis (R): "I won't help to ensure an accurate census count in Florida. It is none of my business."

As the entire nation anticipates a crucial U.S. Supreme Court decision on whether the 2020 Census will include a citizenship question, Gov. Ron DeSantis said definitively that the state will not help to make sure Floridians are accurately counted.

“The federal government does that. We don’t have a role in it,” he said as he got into an elevator shortly after a Thursday event in Sarasota. “They administer it, and they should administer it how they see fit.”

DeSantis’ comment outright rejects the idea raised by several Democratic lawmakers that he should create a Census Statewide Count Committee, as several other states have done, to ensure as many people are counted as possible. Already, Florida has scores of local Census committees dedicated to overcoming language barriers and befriending community leaders to encourage maximum participation.

DeSantis said any lawmakers with concerns “should talk to the Commerce Department in Washington.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article231805553.html

What a moron ...

[Tender Branson]

That's completely meaningless, because the SC will almost definitely rule tomorrow already on this issue.

There is still a small chance though that they will find the citizenship question illegal ...

[Tender Branson]

Telemundo/Mason Dixon poll of Latinos in 4 important states:

QUESTION: Do you plan to participate in the 2020 U.S. Census?

CA: 93-4 Yes
TX: 94-3 Yes
FL: 92-4 Yes
NY: 93-3 Yes

QUESTION: Do you support or oppose including a question regarding legal status or U.S. citizenship in the 2020 U.S. Census?

CA: 50-38 Support
TX: 50-37 Support
FL: 58-32 Support
NY: 48-42 Support

https://www.nbcumv.com/news/telemundo-station-group-hispanic-opinion-poll-hispanics-ca-tx-fl-and-new-york-city-are-more

[Tender Branson]

What does it mean for normal people who have not studied US law ?

[Tender Branson]

Just announced:

The Supreme Court will rule on the case tomorrow.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cases/supreme-court-to-issue-census-electoral-map-rulings-on-thursday-idUSKCN1TR2EZ

[Tender Branson]

Just announced:

The Supreme Court will rule on the case tomorrow.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cases/supreme-court-to-issue-census-electoral-map-rulings-on-thursday-idUSKCN1TR2EZ

It is possible that ruling is that they push it back down to the lower courts.

Highly unlikely.

The forms need to be printed starting next week, so why would they push it back ?

[Tender Branson]

A bit surprising, but I already speculated about it months ago:

Until recently, I thought that they will rule in favour of including it - but Roberts might again take the moderate approach here and side with the Dem-leaning judges.

Yet I still believe that there would be absolutely no problem in asking this question in a census, because virtually all countries do. The US is just an outlier here.

[Tender Branson]

It's going to be extremely difficult to get a valid explanation in and then add in the question considering it's already June 27th and the deadline is June 30th...

The actual deadline is 10/31 though

But the Trump administration has been telling us all along that June 30 is the deadline!

Not the Trump administration, the Census Bureau.

June 30 is the deadline for printing the Census forms, to ensure a smooth preparation for the coming advertising and census operations.

I think October 31 is probably the last theoretically possible time to include the question on the forms, but that would lead to logistical nightmares, as Alaska already starts to count in early January ...

[Tender Branson]

It's pretty funny that basically every other country in the world asks for citizenship in its census but this is seen is as a right wing issue in America, shows how far to the left America is on some issues.

Correct.

If a migrant is coming to Austria, Germany, Norway etc. - that migrant is automatically registered at either the national population register, a community register or some other register (labour, social) - by citizenship.

Case solved. Nothing controversial. It's highly absurd that it's such a politicized issue in the US.

[Tender Branson]

Wow, Trump's a real clown.

"Delay" the Census ? The Constitution clearly says "must be held every 10 years".

[Tender Branson]

The Dept. of Commerce has no clue what to do next after the SC halted their plans for the citizenship question to be added to the Census forms ...

https://www.govexec.com/management/2019/06/commerce-officials-silent-after-supreme-court-blocks-census-question/158111

That's good news for the opponents of the question: printing of the 2020 forms excl. the question is planned to start tomorrow already.

The Trump administration might try to delay that (and there is probably some time left until the end of July or August), but ultimately the Census Bureau will order the forms to be printed in September or so because it would create logistical problems otherwise.

And then there's no way back anymore ...

[Tender Branson]

Trump administration concedes on census citizenship question

The Trump administration said on Tuesday it would begin printing forms for the 2020 US census without a controversial question asking about citizenship, following a key decision by the US supreme court last week blocking the proposal.

A Department of Justice spokeswoman confirmed that the question would not be included on the census, which is constitutionally mandated to take place every 10 years.

The commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross, confirmed that the forms were being printed without the question, saying in a statement: “I respect the Supreme Court but strongly disagree with its ruling regarding my decision to reinstate a citizenship question on the 2020 Census.”

“The Census Bureau has started the process of printing the decennial questionnaires without the question,” Ross continued. “My focus, and that of the Bureau and the entire Department is to conduct a complete and accurate census.”

The announcement follows a US supreme court decision last week that temporarily blocked Trump’s administration from adding a citizenship question to the form, arguing that the government had failed to provide an acceptable justification for wanting the information.

The ruling in effect froze the administration’s plan to include the question but left unclear whether there would be enough time for the administration to provide the court with a better explanation that meets judicial approval. The administration had previously said a decision was needed by 30 June, though other officials have said it could be delayed until the fall.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/02/us-census-citizenship-question-trump

Now it's crucial that as many Americans possible take part in the Census early next year and there's also about 500.000 jobs to be filled for the operation.

[Tender Branson]

This is getting annoying.

Trump needs to shut the f**k up and let the CB print the forms without the question now, so that everything can be prepared smoothly for the count next year.

[Tender Branson]

“By Wednesday afternoon, whatever frustration that Mr. Trump had with the commerce secretary had largely dissipated, a second administration official said, and the president was focused on finding a way to add a question to the census.

Mr. Trump told aides that might mean tacking on a question after census questionnaires had been printed.“

[Tender Branson]

The options forward for Trump (incl. executive orders) are very limited:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/04/politics/census-path-forward-white-house/index.html

Eventually, this nut will fold.

The good thing is that the forms are already being printed and this was not stopped so far and Trump faces a deadline of today already of giving a good enough reason to include the question.

And because the constitution mandates a Census every 10 years by April 1, Trump also cannot issue an executive order delaying it, because it would be immediately halted by a Court.

[Tender Branson]

Census 2020: Trump pursues citizenship question without firm plan

The Trump administration will continue to pursue a way of adding a citizenship question to the census, lawyers said in court filings submitted on Friday. But administration lawyers failed to provide any legal justification for the census question by a court deadline. The Supreme Court rejected the initial rationale for adding the question to the 2020 census as "contrived".

Why has the issue come back?

It appeared settled when government lawyers indicated they had dropped the question, and officials began printing the census without it. That reportedly infuriated President Trump, who announced that his administration would pursue the issue.

But a deadline of 14:00 (18:00 GMT) on Friday set by a Maryland district judge came and went, with no clear indication from the administration on how they planned to add the citizenship question. Government lawyers said only that the justice and commerce departments had been "instructed to examine whether there is a path forward".

President Trump said on Friday an executive order was among the options he was considering to force the question on to the census.

"We have four or five ways we can do it," Mr Trump told reporters, suggesting the administration could "maybe do an addendum" after getting a positive decision. But legal experts say executive orders could not override Supreme Court decisions. US media reported that the administration was considering using separate federal records to try to gather information about undocumented immigrants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48890233

[Tender Branson]

Trump exchanging the horses:

DOJ says new legal team will take over census case

The Justice Department announced Sunday night a new legal team will take over the Trump administration's fight to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census.

The department's spokesperson said in a statement that the DOJ is "shifting these matters to a new team of Civil Division lawyers" and it will be revealed in filings Monday.

The spokesperson did not give a reason for the change. Officials within the Civil Division's Federal Programs Branch had been lead on the census case up until now, but they are being replaced by a combination of career and political officials from the Civil Division's Consumer Protection Branch, a Justice official said.

"Since these cases began, the lawyers representing the United States in these cases have given countless hours to defending the Commerce Department and have consistently demonstrated the highest professionalism, integrity, and skill inside and outside the courtroom," DOJ spokesperson Kerri Kupec said in a statement.

"The Attorney General appreciates that service, thanks them for their work on these important matters, and is confident that the new team will carry on in the same exemplary fashion as the cases progress," the statement continues.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/07/politics/doj-new-legal-team-census/index.html

[Tender Branson]

Trump's Executive Action needs to be swiftly struck down by a Court then, because the President has no authority to deal with the Census on his own ...

From the US constitution:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.