MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

After AOC won, her supporters said it was a good thing, because Joe Crowley was old and out-of-touch and ineffective.  The reality is that Crowley was very in-touch with his district, in fact that was the main thing he did as a Rep was take care of the 14th. 

Crowley's family lived in Virginia, and his children attended VA public schools instead of the schools where in the 14th, and AOC campaigned on this as well.

And what does that have to do with representing his district

It shows that when your own family lives in Virginia and doesn't go to schools from your district that you "represent" that you probably don't represent the district well.

I'm gonna push back on this. I think it's absolutely reasonable for the family of a representative to relocate to the DMV area for the sake of their family's own well-being and I don't think being hundreds of miles from your kids makes you a more effective legislator.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Disagree. I think the subtext is that Pelosi understandably considers him a friend and an extremely effective legislator. Which is completely reasonable.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I hope Kennedy wins just so the Markey stans will quit being insufferable.

Silence, Republican!

Oh come on. Anyhow,

I hope Kennedy wins just so the Markey stans will quit being insufferable.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I hope Kennedy wins just so the Markey stans will quit being insufferable.

Silence, Republican!

Oh come on. Anyhow,

I hope Kennedy wins just so the Markey stans will quit being insufferable.

It's still a pretty stupid thing to say that you hope a candidate loses just because some (not all) of their followers have been insufferable. Not to mention disingenuous about the way Kennedy's supporters have acted.

(That isn't my actual rationale.) Although Markey stanning is just weird. I can't imagine a politician with less gravitas.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Is Markey expected to do better in Boston and Kennedy in south Mass? What's the geographic dynamic of the race?

Kennedy wins Boston, Metrowest, and the South Coast. Markey wins Middlesex, Essex, and Western MA.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Should JKIII be worried about losing the lower cape?

Probably not...? Which candidate is favored on the outer cape?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Not looking pretty for Kennedy ATM...

Not sure how you can make that type of claim in the firs hour of a basically tied race with none of the Boston vote. If anything, I'm pleasantly surprised with Kennedy's margin in Springfield (22% in).

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I am by no means an expert in Mass. politics, but is Springfield supposed to be going to Kennedy by this much?

This much? Probably not. But despite Markey's anticipated strength in Western MA, it is a very WWC area which is evidently good for Kennedy. Biden did particularly well here on Super Tuesday.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Just so we're all clear, basically 100% of Markey's lead is from the Somerville vote dump and it's very, very early in the night. We haven't seen anything from Boston, Quincy, Braintree, etc yet.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Kennedy is running against the co-writer of the GND, so your comment makes no sense.

In terms of coalitions, it absolutely makes sense. Places like Wellesley and Natick are wealthy and establishment in every sense of the word and yet they're propelling Markey's majority.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is hardly accurate, but in any case it's meaningless.

If you were to take a look at the size of lead view on NYT, you'd see it's inarguably accurate.

This can easily be explained by Joe's convenient family name.

Is this where the racist low-information voter line comes into play?

Have you seen western Mass or the northeast?? Small town Massachusetts is Markey country.

Do you know what rural NE MA is like? Rural Mass...isn't exactly Appalachia.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Kennedy is running against the co-writer of the GND, so your comment makes no sense.

In terms of coalitions, it absolutely makes sense. Places like Wellesley and Natick are wealthy and establishment in every sense of the word and yet they're propelling Markey's majority.

Ah, so environmentalism is merely the concern of white, well-off and well-educated people?

Not at all. My point is that Markey is simply winning based on the votes of Massachusetts most elite. As it happens, Markey's message has little appeal outside these communities which would imply his environmentalist of the people schtick isn't being bought by the people he claims he's fighting for.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Kennedy is running against the co-writer of the GND, so your comment makes no sense.

In terms of coalitions, it absolutely makes sense. Places like Wellesley and Natick are wealthy and establishment in every sense of the word and yet they're propelling Markey's majority.

Living in a town/county with an above-average median household income does not make someone "Establishment."

Is a high school librarian in Wellesley part of some elite Establishment?

Maybe or maybe not, although that would be an impressive place to live on such a salary. Regardless, it is clear that the single greatest indicator of voting Markey is being wealthy. Very wealthy.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is hardly accurate, but in any case it's meaningless.

If you were to take a look at the size of lead view on NYT, you'd see it's inarguably accurate.

This can easily be explained by Joe's convenient family name.

Is this where the racist low-information voter line comes into play?

Have you seen western Mass or the northeast?? Small town Massachusetts is Markey country.

Do you know what rural NE MA is like? Rural Mass...isn't exactly Appalachia.

You deny that the Kennedy name is having an effect? Interesting take.

It doesn't need to Appalachia to be small towns and middle class voters.

It is almost certainly having an effect but I trust voters to make their own decisions. And working class voters are choosing Joe. And you're seriously underestimating how wealthy rural towns in much of Massachusetts are.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

This may shock some people but working class, blue collar voters aren’t hardcore Leftists. In the primary they overwhelmingly went for Biden, and Sanders/ Warren got crushed with them. These types of voters are your stereotypical “Moderate Democrat”

Most Progressives are upper class whites in the suburbs. Despite their rhetoric, Berniecrats don’t represent the working class.

Yes I know this. Just reemphasizing it. Although the rich precincts of Metrowest were never Sanders territory, and Berniecrats are rarely wealthy yuppies or working class individuals.

FWIW, Markey's coalition is basically the 2016 primary for Hillary minus all minorities plus all college students.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

This may shock some people but working class, blue collar voters aren’t hardcore Leftists. In the primary they overwhelmingly went for Biden, and Sanders/ Warren got crushed with them. These types of voters are your stereotypical “Moderate Democrat”

Most Progressives are upper class whites in the suburbs. Despite their rhetoric, Berniecrats don’t represent the working class.

Very true, but there's much more at play here than Markey being the more left candidate. Markey is much more in touch with the stereotypical WWC voter of Massachusetts. His accent and working class background is part of it, obviously a small part but is a decent way to illustrate it.

I think the WWC voter of Massachusetts can determine who is most in touch with their needs on their own, no?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

LOL, I live in rural Western MA. We aren't a bunch of rich elitists here.

I was referring to Essex County in this case.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

This may shock some people but working class, blue collar voters aren’t hardcore Leftists. In the primary they overwhelmingly went for Biden, and Sanders/ Warren got crushed with them. These types of voters are your stereotypical “Moderate Democrat”

Most Progressives are upper class whites in the suburbs. Despite their rhetoric, Berniecrats don’t represent the working class.

Very true, but there's much more at play here than Markey being the more left candidate. Markey is much more in touch with the stereotypical WWC voter of Massachusetts. His accent and working class background is part of it, obviously a small part but is a decent way to illustrate it.

I think the WWC voter of Massachusetts can determine who is most in touch with their needs on their own, no?

Most of the people you are thinking of (Southie types) don't even live in Massachusettes anymore. And I don't think the voter participation rate is that high. Remember this is a primary...

Er...who exactly do you think lives in Springfield and Fall River?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

This may shock some people but working class, blue collar voters aren’t hardcore Leftists. In the primary they overwhelmingly went for Biden, and Sanders/ Warren got crushed with them. These types of voters are your stereotypical “Moderate Democrat”

Most Progressives are upper class whites in the suburbs. Despite their rhetoric, Berniecrats don’t represent the working class.

Very true, but there's much more at play here than Markey being the more left candidate. Markey is much more in touch with the stereotypical WWC voter of Massachusetts. His accent and working class background is part of it, obviously a small part but is a decent way to illustrate it.

I think the WWC voter of Massachusetts can determine who is most in touch with their needs on their own, no?

That is mathematically unclear.

True believer in democracy I see.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Is Tyringham township, with a median household income of $60,250, which has gone to Markey by 50% a bastion of elitism?

This is about broad trends, not a universal law. Are you seriously going to dispute that Markey country (Newton, Natick, Brookline, Somerville, Rockport, Littleton) isn't one of the most elite places in the country? Are you seriously going to dispute that Kennedy country (Springfield, Worcester, New Bedford, Fall River, Adams) isn't overwhelmingly working class?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Markey's numbers in Natick and Newton compared against Kennedy's numbers in Springfield and Worcester make one thing clear: this race has never been about progressive vs establishment or house vs senate. It's about the wealthy (Markey's base) vs everyone ese (Kennedy's base). So much for being on the side of the working man, Markey bros.

Have you seen western Mass???

This is the worst possible take for so many reasons.

Springfield vs the Pioneer Valley, you mean? Sure, Markey's going 55-45 in rural Western MA but the blue collar heartland of Massachusetts is solidly behind Kennedy. It's funny to see the Sanders/Warren types who were oh-so-horrified to see the Democrats become the party of UMC whites have their candidate win because of these very voters. It is abundantly clear that Markey's majority is coming from rich towns in Middlesex and Metrowest, not anywhere else.

This may shock some people but working class, blue collar voters aren’t hardcore Leftists. In the primary they overwhelmingly went for Biden, and Sanders/ Warren got crushed with them. These types of voters are your stereotypical “Moderate Democrat”

Most Progressives are upper class whites in the suburbs. Despite their rhetoric, Berniecrats don’t represent the working class.

Very true, but there's much more at play here than Markey being the more left candidate. Markey is much more in touch with the stereotypical WWC voter of Massachusetts. His accent and working class background is part of it, obviously a small part but is a decent way to illustrate it.

I think the WWC voter of Massachusetts can determine who is most in touch with their needs on their own, no?

That is mathematically unclear.

True believer in democracy I see.

?

You seemed to dispute whether voters are capable of determining which candidate best serves their interests.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Is Tyringham township, with a median household income of $60,250, which has gone to Markey by 50% a bastion of elitism?

This is about broad trends, not a universal law. Are you seriously going to dispute that Markey country (Newton, Natick, Brookline, Somerville, Rockport, Littleton) isn't one of the most elite places in the country? Are you seriously going to dispute that Kennedy country (Springfield, Worcester, New Bedford, Fall River, Adams) isn't overwhelmingly working class?

As I said, mathematically unclear.

I misinterpreted that earlier comment, but no, it really isn't.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

lmao blairite seethe

Oh I'm not all that bothered by the race. (And no, I'm not seething--I just had to go get some work done.) I like Kennedy a bit more so I hoped he would win, but I just made my initial comment (Markey's base is rich AF) to point out a bit of progressive hypocrisy and then it spiraled.

For four years, (some) Berniecrats have labeled anyone who disagrees with them as "establishment" or "elitist" or else decried the realignment of rich white suburbanites to the Democratic party. Considering who voted for Markey and who voted for Kennedy, I think it's important that we acknowledge the "new left" has never given the actual working class a good reason to vote for them. That's all. Anyway, I look forward to winning a senate majority in November with Markey as the crucial 50th vote.

/Macarthuring