Hotter, Badder, and Unpopularer Takes

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

The relationship of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent (particularly Punjab my turf) to arabs should really be more compared to that of Spaniard conquerors and native american tribes. Almost alien languages, ethnicities, cultures, etc. Conflating the two would be like calling Deb Haaland’s laguna pueblo tribe akin to Spaniards because she is catholic. The similarities largely stop after religion (even then there are substantial factional differences in religion too). The biggest difference in this comparison is unfortunately that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent are much more predisposed to being adorers of a hostile foreign invader (and I’d so get killed for saying this in parts of Pakistan lol). You don’t have to scratch very far to find the remnants of a pre Islamic civilization in Pakistan, Lahore is literally named after a hindu god, and sargodha which is one of the biggest military centers is named after a hindu ascetic/yogi pond, etc. The biggest problem this manifests itself for my life is rednecks here conflating Pakistanis with the Islamic terror attacks that have happened in America over the past couple of decades. Like almost every single one of them is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us.

😭😭😭 Please white man respect me, I'm not like those filthy Arabs! It makes me so angry when you confuse us! 😠😠😠

FTFY


As a Pakistani, throwing a 300-million-person ethnic group under the bus is never cool. What you're doing sets a very bad example of our people in the U.S. and beyond.

I also find it ironic that for all this talk about Desi Muslims being predisposed to servitude, you yourself seem particularly eager to lick the boots of certain racist rednecks. They don't care that you're not an Arab, they'll never care, deal with it and stop trying to win their approval.

I can see how some of what I said is cancellable, but I highly doubt the entire thing is. There is some truth in there, which yes, we are different.

You are entitled to your opinion, which I recognize is the majority one, hence I posted my opinion in this thread quite fittingly. If you regard my opinion on the matter as lesser than yours since I am only half desi, that's fine too, read it to my dad, he didn't agree with every single line, but he agreed with about 80% of it, and there are full desis (albeit the minority) who share my opinion.

You'll never fully understand it like me a mixed a person, so I don't blame you for your shallow statement there, but that's the thing, I am half desi and half white. They are both a part of me, and I am just being myself whenever I lean into either side.

Your last sentence is also not entirely true, and kind of ignorant. A lot of rednecks are underestimated in terms of their capacities for learning and change. It's why Daryl Davis has gotten hundreds of them to renounce the Klan. You will always have your tfg's (too far gones), but a non 0% substantial amount of them are open minded enough if given the opportunities. I personally myself have educated 4-5 rednecks and got them to renounce their dislike of Pakistanis. I assume it's easier for me, because aside from my full name (even my common name is fairly white), I'm fairly interchangeable with broader American white culture. I use that to put people at more ease at first, and then bring in another friend who is basically fully desi in every sense of the word, and they then see that the sky does not fall down, and the earth does not end. The problem is we are called minorities for a reason, there are not a lot of us, and even less of us willing to be ambassadors, and that's why you don't see a lot of broader societal change fast.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

I can see how some of what I said is cancellable, but I highly doubt the entire thing is. There is some truth in there, which yes, we are different.

I was mainly taking issue with last two sentences ("Like almost every single one of them [terrorists] is an arab, not us. Pick on them, not us."), where you wanted us to throw our Arab brothers and sisters under the bus in order to gain approval (the way I understood your statement). I understand your frustration at being mixed up with Mexicans, Arabs, North Africans etc., but this is not the proper way to be an ambassador as a minority (as you call yourself).

As for the rest of your take, while I disagree with it wholeheartedly, it wasn't outright horrid, it just was a different opinion.

If you regard my opinion on the matter as lesser than yours since I am only half desi, that's fine too

I do not, I apologize if I gave off that vibe.

You'll never fully understand it like me a mixed a person, so I don't blame you for your shallow statement there, but that's the thing, I am half desi and half white. They are both a part of me, and I am just being myself whenever I lean into either side.

I suppose so.

Your last sentence is also not entirely true, and kind of ignorant. A lot of rednecks are underestimated in terms of their capacities for learning and change. It's why Daryl Davis has gotten hundreds of them to renounce the Klan. You will always have your tfg's (too far gones), but a non 0% substantial amount of them are open minded enough if given the opportunities. I personally myself have educated 4-5 rednecks and got them to renounce their dislike of Pakistanis. I assume it's easier for me, because aside from my full name (even my common name is fairly white), I'm fairly interchangeable with broader American white culture. I use that to put people at more ease at first, and then bring in another friend who is basically fully desi in every sense of the word, and they then see that the sky does not fall down, and the earth does not end. The problem is we are called minorities for a reason, there are not a lot of us, and even less of us willing to be ambassadors, and that's why you don't see a lot of broader societal change fast.

You're correct, my final sentence was rather ignorant, prejudiced, and presumptuous. I'll be removing that and apologize to any rural people who it may have offended. I also commend you on your effort to educate the broader American public that we aren't spawns of Satan 👍 (assuming you don't go, "Well, it's not like we're Arabs lol, those are the guys who cause explosions" after meeting them)

I don't say they are all terrorists, but I do make clear that out of the few radical Islamic terror attacks in America in the past couple of decades, even fewer of them were done by Pakistanis. I'm just tired of the superiority complex on us though. Tired of being relegated to being second class. They are "brothers and sisters" in faith in the same way spanish conquistadors are to native americans that were converted by them. They are richer and more powerful than us, and can fend for themselves without needing me to stick up for them.