Abolish ICE Thread: (Gillibrand\Warren in favor, Klobuchar against )

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Kirsten Gillibrand has no actual beliefs, she just says what the base wants to hear and hopes it makes her President.

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Amy Klobuchar is 100% right.

She's right in that we need to change the laws, but we need to change the laws AND abolish ICE and replace it with something way less disgusting and inhumane.

You can do that by just changing the policies and REFORMING ICE.

Such reforms would be so major that it's the same as abolishing it but "abolition" is a scary radical word I guess.

Saying abolish ICE puts us vulnerable for being depicted pro-open borders, a position a majority of Americans are against. We can't afford another 4 years of Trump (or Pence if Trump is taken down by Mueller)

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Amy Klobuchar is 100% right.

She's right in that we need to change the laws, but we need to change the laws AND abolish ICE and replace it with something way less disgusting and inhumane.

You can do that by just changing the policies and REFORMING ICE.

Such reforms would be so major that it's the same as abolishing it but "abolition" is a scary radical word I guess.

Saying abolish ICE puts us vulnerable for being depicted pro-open borders, a position a majority of Americans are against. We can't afford another 4 years of Trump (or Pence if Trump is taken down by Mueller)

Y'all really want to play nice with agents shepherding kids into camps and being torn away from parents because of "muh electability"?

Firing👏Bad👏Agents👏Is👏Part👏Of👏Reform👏

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To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

Amy Klobuchar is 100% right.

She's right in that we need to change the laws, but we need to change the laws AND abolish ICE and replace it with something way less disgusting and inhumane.

You can do that by just changing the policies and REFORMING ICE.

Such reforms would be so major that it's the same as abolishing it but "abolition" is a scary radical word I guess.

Saying abolish ICE puts us vulnerable for being depicted pro-open borders, a position a majority of Americans are against. We can't afford another 4 years of Trump (or Pence if Trump is taken down by Mueller)

Y'all really want to play nice with agents shepherding kids into camps and being torn away from parents because of "muh electability"?

Firing👏Bad👏Agents👏Is👏Part👏Of👏Reform👏

I still don't have any idea what the actual substance of this debate is about.  What is the functional difference between "abolish and replace" vs. "reform"?  To me, it sounds like they're the same thing with different names.

I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled). Also, "reform" can't be twisted by the right like "abolish" to make us sound like we're pro-open borders (a position that I and a majority of Americans do not support).

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To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

The whole "they're just following orders" argument is stupid. That's the point of this post.

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I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

I think I worded what I said poorly. Reforming ICE does NOT mean getting rid of it, it means overhauling it.

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To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

don't even pretend there's any comparrison between the two. your ideology is severely blinding you.

The whole "they're just following orders" argument is stupid. That's the point of this post.

no-- because it's accurate. if you don't like the law, change the law. the executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws passed by congress per the constitution. that's whats happened now and during the obama years and before that. it's ridiculously polarizing to just casually throw around comparisons to Nazis and then just say "I'm just saying that argument is stupid". If that's all your trying to say just say it and provide some substance instead of some character assassination.

What?? The argument is stupid because Grass was making excuses for ICE by saying "its the law," so I tried to say that that's not an excuse and (obviously you didn't pick up on this) implied that the laws need to be changed.

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I mean they're pretty similar but have different results (one being ICE removed and the other having ICE being seriously overhauled).

I don't understand that distinction.  If you "remove" ICE but "replace" it with another agency that has many of the same responsibilities, then in what sense was it removed?  Isn't the new thing then just the same as a "reformed ICE" with a different name?

I think I worded what I said poorly. Reforming ICE does NOT mean getting rid of it, it means overhauling it.

No, I understand that part.  I'm asking what "abolish ICE" means.  For those who advocate getting rid of ICE but replacing it with something else, what makes that new agency they want to create different from what ICE would be in the scenario where you reform ICE?

What does "abolishing ICE" entail exactly?  All the employees get fired and the buildings get sold off, or what?  And then what?  The next day you hire a bunch of new people to do some of the jobs that ICE did that you want to retain?

I don't support abolishing ICE, but I've heard some people support abolishing ICE and replacing it, others just get rid of it all together. You have to ask supporters of abolishing ICE to get a clear answer.

The problem, however, is that "abolish" can be twisted by the right to depict Democrats as pro-open borders. Reform sounds much better. It's an electability issue, really.

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To be quite honest, I think ICE is just doing it's job. They are enforcing the law. What do you dems want? For illegal immigrants to just get away without consequence?

1940: Just enforcing the law and doing my job

I find it incredibly strange that you would compare what is happening at the border to nazi germany. It really shows why the democratic party is losing voters. Way to be separated from reality.

Exactly. These aliens are the ones invading our country. If anything, the illegals are the Nazis and ICE are the heroic resistance partisans.

Those kids are so dangerous, they're like the Waffen SS on steroids! /s