This Once Great Movement Of Ours

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I’ve still got my hoodie from the 2019 election that has “promoted by Howard Beckett” on it - I’m wondering if it’ll become evidence.

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Interesting Guardian piece on Labour frontbench dynamics- some chafing at the return of Douglas Alexander and rumours around Ed Balls and David M. Basically just a ‘well they weren’t here for the hard part why should they get a cushy job’.

Also some complaints re those who have big jobs (Dodds again) and asking why some don’t (C***sy- no doubt because of her helpful interventions on Brexit)

Interesting there was a line re Nandy not seeming to enjoy her role- I thought she was and just needs to be given a big housing offer. You can see one being made in health and education… and the state of housing is going to be one of the biggest challenges for a Labour government. It’s not just the awful private rented sector either anymore…

This is a pretty mainstream opinion across the party, there’s more than a few people who went Lib Dem/Change UK in 2019 (or at least disappeared) who are hanging around in the hopes of selection - to my knowledge none have succeeded yet, but it’s quite galling.

Personally I’ve no major issue with Ed Balls or David Miliband coming back, I actually always liked David, but Douglas Alexander epitomises the mediocre cliquey hubris that brought Scottish Labour to ruin - and he shouldn’t come back. I’d genuinely prefer Jim Murphy to him.

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Rubicon crossed, be interesting to see how many of Corbyns comrades in the SCG are brave enough to stand with him now at the cost of their own careers (I bet none).

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Rubicon crossed, be interesting to see how many of Corbyns comrades in the SCG are brave enough to stand with him now at the cost of their own careers (I bet none).

I mean, when Starmer threatened to withdraw the whip over that Stop the War letter they all signed last February, they all recanted within the afternoon. Doubt any of them are willing to have their membership revoked over this.

Wonder what Momentum ends up doing. Do they end up proscribed for backing a non-party candidate? Do they try and disaffiliate from the party, and rebrand as a general left-wing group, outside the party? Or do they have too much invested inside the party, and snub Corbyn too?

The invested argument might have worked a year or two ago, but given the number of people who are just affiliated with momentum who’ve been blocked from standing I don’t see what they’d have to lose at this point - unless being Labour councillors is so important.

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It's not really new information - the previous line was that Corbyn had to apologise to get the whip back, and that was never going to happen.

It is important, because until now the SCG/Momentum could get away with the “restore the whip” argument, now they have to make a choice between Corbyn or Labour.

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There are few people less suited to Parliament than Owen Jones, I’d take Corbyn back over him.

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Not sure how likely it is, or even if she’s remotely interested, but I sincerely hope Luciana returns as a Labour MP at the next election.

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Already talk she may stand in Islington North (though I would be wary of that personally)

No serious person thinks this is a good idea. She deserves better.

If they want an ex MP to take a golf club to Corbyn & Corbynism it’ll be Mary Creagh.

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Very surprised to read here that Angela Smith rejoined last year.

I can see Gapes, Coffey & Ryan coming back but the rest seem happier outside - particularly Austin.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/luciana-bergers-return-to-labour-clears-the-path-for-others-to-rejoin-cnhq8dzzj

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It's hardly a fun job but I do wonder why candidates such as him (those who are high profile enough to be known but not liked by any faction/influential selection players) didn't try and become ward councillors- even in safe seats it's relatively easy and allows you to build up a powerbase.

They think it’s beneath them usually, and it would distract him from things he actually likes like writing & appearing on TV.

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Not really a surprise at this point, but formal confirmation that Corbyn will be blocked (assuming the NEC ratifies this and there’s no reason to think they won’t afaik).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/27/jeremy-corbyn-not-stand-labour-next-election-keir-starmer

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Talking of people who have been radicalized recently, Diane Abbott has sent, um, quite the letter to the Guardian where she says Jews and Travellers are not victims of racism, and compares discrimination against them to anti redhead bullying.

She’s quite clearly yearns for the same martyrdom that Corbyn got of having Evans expel her. At this point she should get it, this should be her final act as a Labour MP.

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The most noteworthy thing is surely how few of the left have spoken out in her defence.

(basically, its just the crankiest of the cranks)

I think if she hadn’t mentioned Irish & Travellers she’d have got more support from them. Although I like to think anyone actually on the left would recognise the basic lack of empathy as wrong.

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Reshuffle speculation seems to be hotting up. So baseless speculation time.

Rumours of Yvette Cooper or Lammy getting moved; would be shocked if both are, but I guess the only job Yvette would accept is Shadow Foreign Sec and would she be that bad at the ‘looking serious’ and talking about ‘multi-lateral solutions’- besides it’s a relatively strange job.

The issue would be where Lammy goes; he struggled at shadow justice imv, so it might be easier to keep them both were they are.

Darren Jones has been briefed several times as likely to get a job; digital would make sense but he could theoretically go anywhere.
Jim McMahon has been getting briefed against for ages; a council leader from Oldham was always a strange choice for DEFRA in the current environment and yesterdays vote will give a reason for those looking for one.

A few people would ideally get promoted; Thornberry, Haigh and some obvious people who haven’t been that great

Cooper, Lammy and McMahon have been underwhelming, but the first two have the advantage of being former ministers - and LOTO want people who can do the job on day 1 of getting in to government. McMahon I think is there for the same reason with his experience - though I think everyone agrees it’s a weird role for him.

The only other people who are former cabinet members left not in the shadow cabinet are Margaret Beckett (retiring), Ben Bradshaw (retiring), Stephen Timms (old + awful views on LGBT rights), Liam Byrne (baggage from that note, losing mayoralty in 2021 & suspension from Parliament) and Hilary Benn - who’s always tipped for returns but I’ll believe it when I see it.

There’s only a few others left with ministerial experience who aren’t retiring:

Angela Eagle (not exactly universally popular, and may be a backwards step),
John Spellar (pretty old, may stand down last minute to let one of the L2W Leading lights in to Parliament)
Gareth Thomas (currently a shadow minister, could move up but not that high profile)
Barry Gardiner (discredited in the eyes of LOTO, and most of the party)
Maria Eagle (more popular than her sister, but may be seen as a backward step again)
Karen Buck (currently a shadow minister, again - may move up but hasn’t been talked about)
Derek Twigg (not been a frontbencher for a long time, anti-equal marriage)
Kevin Brennan (not been a frontbencher since Starmer, low profile)
Kevan Jones (not been a frontbencher under Starmer, low profile since 2016)
Chris Bryant (not exactly a team player or popular - hence his failed speakership run - would only come back for a top job since he’s a select committee chair)
Diana Johnson (not been a frontbencher under Starmer, fairly popular & respected though so could come back to do something)
Barbara Keeley (was Shad Cab under Corbyn but fired by Starmer, though he has brought her back - performed fairly well last time she was in the Shad Cab so could be, but not been talked about)
Dawn Butler (seen as dodgy on anti-semitism & too associated with Corbyn, no chance Imo)

So on the experience side, the Eagles are probably the only high profile ones semi-likely to come back, and I sort of think if Starmer wanted them he’d have got them back earlier.

On the promoting rising stars side: Darren Jones would only leave his committee for a full shad cab job, but he’d be a great addition. I think Streeting might get moved to Education, maybe even a straight job swap. I think Stephen Morgan & Sarah Jones might move up too - both are reasonable/reliable.

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McGovern must believe she can win, and Whitley isn’t exactly projecting strength, but I’m surprised that she’s so confident - Birkenhead CLP never struck me as a progress friendly place.

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McGovern must believe she can win, and Whitley isn’t exactly projecting strength, but I’m surprised that she’s so confident - Birkenhead CLP never struck me as a progress friendly place.

Well, the previous MP was Frank Field and the one before him was Edmund Dell, so historically at least it isn't averse to selecting people on the right-wing of the Party. My general observation would be that most CLPs can pick someone of most factional positions in a reasonably fair selection context, and that the tendency to see this or that CLP as a fiefdom of a particular faction is usually wrong.

If you recall, the CLP also rather brutally and publicly turned on Field at the end of his career, and were one of the strongest redoubts of Corbynism in those years. Granted many of them have been expelled, but some of the rank and file will be around - and I’m surprised if you think it’s wrong that McGovern’s political positioning is a hindrance to her in that seat.

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Yes, but that was partly because Field became *so* right wing even most of his former backers locally washed their hands of him. Before that was the case, there were two serious attempts to oust him in 1989 and 1991 - but both ultimately failed (and even though he needed national party intervention after the first instance, it was equally clear that Field had some strong local support)

Though it should also be remembered that back in 1979 he was if anything considered something of a left winger (even if a slightly heterodox one) due to his stint with the Child Poverty Action Group - and was quite possibly a bit of a reaction against his unabashedly right wing predecessor Dell (who duly decamped to the SDP a couple of years after standing down as an MP)

Though they quite plainly have large differences - I seriously doubt the average Corbynite would
seea meaningful distinction between Frank Field & Ali McGovern. Most people don’t pay anywhere near enough attention. Whitley = solid SCG type, McGovern = Progress/LFI. I can’t see many people who’d go to the trouble of dispatching Field and then be happy with McGovern coming in - unless Birkenhead is a hidden lair of remainers.

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Ha I mean I was going to say I was the type who would have not supported Field in 2019 but would vote for AM over MW in a selection!

It's apples & oranges but it's worth noting that Liverpool West Derby very nearly voted for a first term councillor who was a former bag carrier over their sitting SCG MP earlier this year.

It's no longer tracked to the degree it was in the JC years but I wonder how much churn there has been in CLPs with people leaving; both among the hardcore officer groups (people who were branch chairs, attended every CLP meeting etc) and the paper membership types who could be persuaded to turn up for important votes.

But I don't know enough about Birkenhead; seems around 500 or 600 people voted in 2019 which suggests a CLP size of above 1000 maybe?

With respect, someone who posts on a politics forum like us is hardly representative of even the people who go to CLP meetings - most people’s engagement is no more detailed than Corbyn good vs Corbyn bad.

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I think that is slightly patronising tbh, especially of people who *do* go to meetings.

Even amongst those who don't, *some* can be strikingly well informed (there are in fact other reasons for not being an active party member than "can't be bothered")

1. It’s not patronising, there’s nothing to criticise people for not being engaged - it’s a statement of fact, most aren’t. I don’t think the fact I am engaged gives me any form of superiority, do you? Is that why you think it’s critical? If anything we’re the strange ones.

2. You seriously need to go to more CLP meetings if you honestly believe the average person there would care about something as trivial as the differences between Field & McGovern.  

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I've been to both meetings and selection contests in my time - and one thing that I can assure you of is some people getting very wound up about relatively minor differences. Why do you think there is so much factionalism in the first place, or indeed all that splitting on both the far left and far right?

People in a selection contest are more likely to get wound up that the candidate is from the wrong side of town, rather than their views on quantitative easing.

On factionalism, how many members would have identified with a faction beyond Corbyn or not Corbyn 2015-19? Aside from a few hundred ultra-online weirdos in Open Labour I doubt anyone did.  Just look at the NEC results if you require proof, the two main factions get 8/9 and 1 goes to the rest - and that’s only cos everyone loves Ann Black. When she retires it’ll be 9/9 for the main two.

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I try to have the rather reductive view that most CLP people have the same voting habits as people you meet on the doorstep e.g strange! I know someone who didn’t vote for YC because of what Ed did 100 years ago over Baby P and I know someone who was a Starmer/Burgon voter in 2020 because they thought Keir would win over the right wing press and Burgon was a ‘decent guy’.

By way of example, in the 2020 Labour deputy leadership election there were 3 candidates left when the 65000 votes from hard right Ian Murray were transferred. Despite the presence of 2 much more popular mainstream candidates, 4000 of them actively chose to preference hard left Richard Burgon. People are just weird, and it’s not just a rounding error share of them.

I mean that could just be people voting for the two male candidates. That’s not that shocking.

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Yes, but that was partly because Field became *so* right wing even most of his former backers locally washed their hands of him. Before that was the case, there were two serious attempts to oust him in 1989 and 1991 - but both ultimately failed (and even though he needed national party intervention after the first instance, it was equally clear that Field had some strong local support)

Though it should also be remembered that back in 1979 he was if anything considered something of a left winger (even if a slightly heterodox one) due to his stint with the Child Poverty Action Group - and was quite possibly a bit of a reaction against his unabashedly right wing predecessor Dell (who duly decamped to the SDP a couple of years after standing down as an MP)

Though they quite plainly have large differences - I seriously doubt the average Corbynite would
seea meaningful distinction between Frank Field & Ali McGovern. Most people don’t pay anywhere near enough attention. Whitley = solid SCG type, McGovern = Progress/LFI. I can’t see many people who’d go to the trouble of dispatching Field and then be happy with McGovern coming in - unless Birkenhead is a hidden lair of remainers.

Field was hardly shy about his views, let alone his criticism of the party and the leadership as he was leaving. McGovern is certainly Progress, but for whatever reason she's never attracted that much attention compared to a lot of Progress MPs. It's unfortunate in a way as I think she's much more intellectually impressive than most people her faction has touted in the past, but it also meant she never really became a target for anyone. From the stories I heard, Corbynism on the Wirral was unusually nasty, focused on score-settling and careerism, but McGovern still sailed through her trigger ballot in 2019.

Apples and oranges:

McGovern as a random backbencher - gets no attention.

McGovern running for selection against an incumbent SCG MP - draws more.

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If the membership in Merseyside is no longer reliably Bennite/Corbynite then the left is in more dire straits than even they realise. Birkenhead is the text of this, but I seriously doubt McGovern can pull it off unless there has been a sea change.

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If the membership in Merseyside is no longer reliably Bennite/Corbynite then the left is in more dire straits than even they realise. Birkenhead is the text of this, but I seriously doubt McGovern can pull it off unless there has been a sea change.

I mean, its not and never has been binary. Do you think the fight against Militant in the 1980s came from entirely outside Liverpool? The truth is anything but.

And? This has literally nothing to do with what I said.

Do you think no one on the left opposed militant? Liverpools own Peter Kilfoyle beat Militant and was still a visceral opponent of New Labour. Plenty of people in Liverpool were against militant because they were gangsters & thugs, not because they themselves weren’t on the left. It’d be hardly surprising to find plenty of people who in the 80s were anti-militant and in 2015 voted Corbyn - least of all in Liverpool.

It’s also ancient history, plenty of places developed strong Corbynite groups 2015-19 that hadn’t had anything like that before - what happened in the 80s has little to no bearing on what happens in the 20s.

But for the sake of clarity, neither I, nor anyone, has ever claimed that every single Labour member in Liverpool is on the left of the party.

Yeah, this is a case where stereotype occludes reality somewhat.

I honestly don’t understand how you can dispute that Merseyside Labour was a stronghold of the left. Three of their MP’s quit the party in the last parliament because of it.

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Surprising, and frankly bizarre decision.

https://labourlist.org/2023/06/metro-mayor-jamie-driscoll-north-tyne-north-east-left-nec-ban/