Trump told Orban he will abandon Ukraine and Europe as a whole if re-elected

[Hindsight was 2020]

Translation:
Without guarantee

Won't give a cent: Trump promised not to give money to Ukraine – Orban.

“Trump said that if he wins the presidential election, he will not fund Ukraine or European security,” - Orban.

“If America doesn't give money, the Europeans alone cannot finance this war, and then the war will end,” emphasized the Hungarian head of government.

According to him, Trump also commented on the situation of European security. The American ex-president said that the time for rearmament had come and that every country should have its own equipment and army to protect itself. Therefore, Trump does not want the US to finance European security and not the Europeans themselves.

Putin agent through and through. Also I love the fact Trump and his goons say that helping Ukraine will case WW3 but here he is telling Orban that Europe needs to rabidly re-militarize something that would increase the odds of a major conflict
https://hirado.hu/belfold/cikk/2024/03/10/orban-viktor-miniszterelnok-exkluziv-interjuja-ma-este-lathato-az-m1-en

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

Beating Putin in Ukraine is literally the best use of resources to prevent Putin encroaching on the rest of Europe lol. What transparent bad faith logic you guys deal in

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

Beating Putin in Ukraine is literally the best use of resources to prevent Putin encroaching on the rest of Europe lol. What transparent bad faith logic you guys deal in

Except Putin will not be defeated barring a US invasion which will not happen. Aid will stalemate for a longer time but it will only lead to more death and destruction.

That is an absolute load of crap, Ukraine has shown throughout the war they can beat Russia conventionally in the field when they get sufficient support from the West

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

After Ukraine falls, you'll use that same argument not to help the next country Putin invades.

Of course that’s why it’s bad faith, notice he went from a position of “abandon Ukraine to protect the rest of Europe” to later saying “Putin has nukes so he can do whatever he wants”

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

Beating Putin in Ukraine is literally the best use of resources to prevent Putin encroaching on the rest of Europe lol. What transparent bad faith logic you guys deal in

Except Putin will not be defeated barring a US invasion which will not happen. Aid will stalemate for a longer time but it will only lead to more death and destruction.

That is an absolute load of crap, Ukraine has shown throughout the war they can beat Russia conventionally in the field when they get sufficient support from the West

You have no idea about the real situation in Ukraine. A friend of mine has just come back from a visit to Ukraine. It is a thoroughly militarized society now and there are only about 20 million of Ukrainians left in the country out of some 42 million before the war.

I know literally know Ukrainian on the ground not taking second hand accounts from friends

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

Again why do people like you who go on and on about a negotiated peace duck the fact Russia current demands for any agreement is Ukrainian capitulation? I’ve constantly raised the fact that Russia is currently demanding that Ukraine hand over major cities they control to Russia, the mass resignation of the current Ukrainian government and a 200k hard cap on their military size, only for these facts to get ducked for this continued call for peace like Ukraine is the unreasonable party that needs to be brought to the table?!

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Putin. Resources spent in Ukraine can be better used ensuring Putin doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Obama and Biden failed to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

It's sad but sometimes an amputation is needed to preserve the rest of Europe from the horror of Hitler. Resources spent in Czechoslovakia can be better used ensuring Hitler doesn't gain an inch of soil anywhere else. Chamberlain and Daladier failed to prevent Germany from taking over Czechoslovakia but we can make sure this doesn't happen ever again from a fresh start.

The two situations are not identical.

We have an interest in checking naked aggression.  I have heard the arguments, some from reasonable and honest posters like KaiserDave, and some like flat-out hacks like Hindsight was 2020.  I fail to see why seeking a negotiated peace is not the solution for Ukraine when people are demanding a Cease Fire in Gaza.  If I believed we could drive Russia from every inch of Ukraine, and take back Crimea to boot, that would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen, even if we go "all in".

Not comparable situations for one Israel isn’t trying to formally annex Gaza (yet at least god knows with Bibi) also the calls for a ceasefire put the onus on Israel (aggressor) while in Ukraine you guys are advocating positions of victim blaming and awarding the aggressor (Russia).

I don't blame Ukraine for the current war, and I do believe that it's in our interest to respond to such aggression.  Putin's invasion cancelled out whatever virtue his arguments regarding NATO expansion, Western sponsorship of the coup that ousted a lawfully elected Ukrainian President, etc. may have had.  There's no excuse for the invasion.

But there's no reason not to seek a negotiated peace.  Unless, of course, we wish to make this conflict into WWIII.  We may well be able to win WWIII.  What kind of peace would there be afterward?  That's a fair question.  And the longer we wait to seek a negotiated peace, the stronger Russia's position would be.

This can be true in private but publicly going out with this stance in negotiations makes us look weak and tells Russia they can call a bluff for more concessions on this. You have praised Trump for using hardline rhetoric against North Korea early on to get better terms (which didn’t hold btw but that’s another story) Why do you not see how this is similar here?

Straight from the devils mouth
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1767824155108311284

[Hindsight was 2020]

Once again this is what Russia is demanding to end the war