Sarah Palin's daughter IS pregnant, actually

[Torie]

Are Nazarenes against birth control?  Just asking.

[Torie]

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I bet this comment was made by a Democrat!

Those tracking polls are going to show McCain sinking below 40% in the polls over this. Oh, the horror, the horror!

[Torie]

I might note the interesting timing of the release.

I guess the McCain campaign thought the DailyKos smear was getting traction, and the sewage needed to be contained. Sad, really.

[Torie]

I wish her daughter all the best, and I think she is making the 100% right decision to have the baby.

Politically, at least McCain knew, but this really sucks for the GOP.  The stress of it becoming public may also explain Palin's strained voice last Friday.

The biggest question politically is:  can Palin handle the stress and relax on stage with all this going on?  That now becomes the question.

I know I am not representative of anyone, but this is a total non story to me. Yawn.

[Torie]

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Now THAT is a wild shot. Please! So many uber partisans, so little time.

[Torie]

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And there you have it.

Keep these quotes coming folks. It's been a veritable goldmine of mine of them.

[Torie]

Why are socially conservative "white trash" types better than socially conservative upper middle class white types Lewis?  Please help me with some of this. In any event, you don't know enough facts to make any such conclusion about the "culture" of the Palin household - obviously.

[Torie]

I don't know Sam.  I predict their line will be - what does it say about her as a mother that she was willing to join the ticket knowing it would bring her daughter's personal prediciment into public view?  They won't exactly phrase it that way but you know what I'm getting at.

You disagree?

Well I disagree, to butt in. One cannot let one's life be dictated by the acts of one's children. In this day and age, it is not as if the daughter will become a social leper. It is a great big zero I think.

Brittain, I just don't think a 17 year old getting knocked up is that big a deal. Granted if Palin opposes sex education, that was a failing. Maybe the daughter's birth control failed. Who knows.

[Torie]

I still want to know if anyone feels that this ought to be relevant in the campaign.

I took a stab at why I think it will be, even though the Democrats can not and should not make it a campaign issue. As a social conservative, I'm curious to hear your take on my read on the issue.

For the record, if I am right, I see the outcome to be a swap of someone else for Palin rather than long-term damage to the ticket, with Palin using this news as an excuse for her to spend more time with her family. For once, that excuse would be accurate.

That would destroy McCain's campaign if she drops out. It shows either McCain didn't know, or knew, and than when the inevitable happened, he panicked.

[Torie]

Hold on a second.  This family seems like white trash?

What???

Okay, I'll rephrase it.

Working Class.

Better?

You still haven't answer my little query.

[Torie]

Snow, you seem to think "family values" types think one size fits all, and that the knocked up kid should marry the guy, no matter who he is. That's a ludicrous stereotype. These folks can weigh the pros and the cons just as well as those inhabiting secular city.

[Torie]

Ya, Lewis, but you picked on socially conservative upper middle class types. Am I not a class enemy?

You don't know the circumstances of this pregnancy. That is what is obvious. I don't teens having sex makes one part of a white trash family. Upper middle class kids have sex too. Who knew?

[Torie]

Here is a question. Would some here be posting what they are posting now, if Sarah Palin had been a male?  Is it poor judgment to pick a male as your VP nominee with a knocked up daughter?

I just don't get it really. The only line of attack which might hurt a bit with the secular upper middle class in precincts McCain needs to make inroads in, is that Sarah favors abstinence only sex education. That does not sell at all in my zip code, and this highlights that. Of course it should not matter at all in how one votes for POTUS, but lots of things that should not matter to me, do to others, unfortunately. And so it goes.

[Torie]

It strikes me as a bit unfair to hold up politicians of more "traditional" values to a higher standard as to the behavior of their children. And I don't think Palin was sold as the perfect mother, nor even as a seasoned cultural warrior. She was sold as a tough minded reformer, who didn't take any crap, a tough but non castrating sister actually. I sure hope this blows over the way of Gustav, with the levees holding. without any real damage.

[Torie]

I just don't get it really. The only line of attack which might hurt a bit with the secular upper middle class in precincts McCain needs to make inroads in, is that Sarah favors abstinence only sex education. That does not sell at all in my zip code, and this highlights that. Of course it should not matter at all in how one votes for POTUS, but lots of things that should not matter to me, do to others, unfortunately. And so it goes.

I can see that.  Of course, I don't know exactly to who that is a game changer in the OC.

There are a fair number of upper middle class swing voters in OC, which is hidden by the overall partisan divide, but I was thinking more about places where it would matter, like in Montco County, and Oakland County, and Indian Hill and Littleton, and Evergreen.

[Torie]

It strikes me as a bit unfair to hold up politicians of more "traditional" values to a higher standard as to the behavior of their children.

Is it any more unfair than when they hold up gays or African-Americans to a higher standard, and they bring it up in the first place?

If they're the ones who insist on the standards and that they should be higher than the Democrats believe in, yes, they must walk the walk. Perhaps one needs to have been casually referred to as one of society's delinquents by politicians and religious figures on a regular basis to appreciate this. My first sympathies for double standards do not extend to conservative politicians, not since I've had to tune out hearing people quite seriously and sincerely say that I got married in order to destroy the institution of marriage. The onus is on them to stand up to their words.

It is tough to pass your values onto your issue seamlessly, Brittain. Folks have hangups on the gay thing, no doubt about it. And it is pretty hard wired.

[Torie]

A real Evangelical fundamentalist would kick their 17 year old daughter out of the house and send her to a homeless shelter for punishment for getting pregnant. I think Palin will lose credibility with the fundamentalist base of the GOP if she does not seriously punish this girl.

I don't think you understand these folks well at all. Now if their son came out as gay .....

[Torie]

That would be true if Alan Keyes were the only real Evangelical Fundamentalist alive.

And remember what happened when he replaced someone else on the ballot against Barack Obama.

Nah. Keyes bounced his daughter for being gay.

Keyes is going to have a cell next to mine in hell, and be consigned to having to debate with me about abortion and gays  for all eternity. There really IS justice in this world.

[Torie]

I don't think you understand these folks well at all. Now if their son came out as gay .....

Actually, I went to a fundamentalist school K-12. There was a 17 year old girl there who dated a member of a rival fundamentalist sect (she didn't get pregnant though). Her parents kicked her out of the house and sent her to a homeless shelter. That is what this story made me think of.

I certainly hope the state sent them a bill, for the costs. That is all they had for alternative living arrangements for minors - a homeless shelter? It must be a quite backward zip code.

[Torie]

Congratulations to Bristol Palin on her second pregnancy.

LOL. Trig Palin was born on April 18, 2008, and Bristol is supposedly 5 months pregnant. Bristol is THE bionic woman clearly.

I have this feeling that this issue will sink faster than Jimmy Hoffa's cement encased body sank into Lake Huron. But if the opposition want to play with this some more through plausible deniables, let them go for it!

[Torie]

Congratulations Levi! 

[Torie]

Sarah Palin is a hypocrite because her daughter disobeyed her.  Um, OK.

Sarah Palin is a hypocrite because her daughter disobeyed her.  Um, OK.

 I am just saying that her position is wrong and it is a bit ironic that it was her daughter that proved her wrong. Of course Palin's dumbass position on sex-ed will lead to other pregnancies and abortions we will never hear of.

OK, sbane, that does it. Palin is wrong with her abstinence only sex education ideas, giving my own little secular humanism libertine biases on these small matters of coital satisfaction. I'm voting for Obama. Heck I know what is important, and what isn't. That is why they pay me the big bucks.

[Torie]

Well Sam, looks like you're wrong about the MSM not touching this.  Wolf couldn't get enough of it on CNN today - kept going back to it.

I'm surprised.  I thought it would have been MSNBC.

It will be an sbane abstinence only education is nutter hit 24/7 until the issue dies. The opposition isn't stupid.