Why have Democrats gotten so bad on civil liberties? (user search)
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  Why have Democrats gotten so bad on civil liberties? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why have Democrats gotten so bad on civil liberties?  (Read 1770 times)
Calthrina950
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« on: October 21, 2020, 11:57:03 AM »

Besides, the Democratic coalition as of 2020 is no place for anyone who scores low on trust in authority. They've always laughed at us anyway and will be happier cavorting with people who thought that Mitt Romney's 2012 campaign was a height of decency in politics.

This isn't wholly true. Authoritarians are overrepresented in the leadership roles of all parties and the Democratic electorate is probably less skeptical of government in the abstract than it was 20 years ago, although the same is true for the Republicans, for better and for worse. The coronavirus-themed elephant in the room has seen major global policy shifts, most of which don't see very durable to me, but besides that, Democratic policymakers have generally pushed in a more civil libertarian direction in recent years. Whether that translates into a less authoritarian federal government remains to be seen, but the party seems more willing than before to push for expanded voting rights/access, more ambitious policing reforms and drug decriminalisation. There are areas of regression like freedom of speech but I'd wager that activists are pushing for more socially liberal policies, although that isn't necessarily coming from a socially liberal philosophy.

I think the overbearing response to the pandemic deserves more weight, especially in states like New York and California. It shows you how far they are willing to go when a crisis moves public opinion and there's no real opposition to check their power.

To be clear, "trust in authority" and authoritarianism mean different things to me and I used that phrasing deliberately. Both parties are becoming more authoritarian even as they move in opposite directions on the first of those dimensions.

e: This post at Scholar's Stage sums up my thinking better than I can:

Quote
Americans were once accustomed to solving problems themselves—less as rugged individuals, than as rugged communitarians. When a novel problem occurred, they would gather together with others affected, and would together take action to resolve the problem before them. This lived experience of jointly solving novel problems has largely disappeared from American life.

Americans have spent several generations the subject of bureaucratic management, and are rarely given real responsibility for their own affairs. The "Karen" like impulse of contemporary life is to defer to experts; when a novel problem arises, the default solution is an appeal to management. The problem with all this: managers come from the same stultified society as the managed. Once they attain power they realize they have no more experience building problem-solving institutions than the rest of us.

I'm not going to accept this argument: unless you believe in abstract principles of civil liberties in all circumstances you are an authoritarian.

As Keynes said: “When facts change, I change my mind,”   The situation in the world has changed with this pandemic.  It is not a hoax and it is not 'no worse than the normal flu.'

Have there been some over-reactions from authorities, sure.  However, mask requirements and lock-downs to significantly reduce the spread of the virus (i.e macro quarantining) are both rational responses to a genuinely deadly virus that can't be seen.

I think the obvious paranoia here is from those who argue that the governors of California or New York or Michigan are using this pandemic to realize their dream of some authoritarian society. That's idiotic paranoia.

Also, if you are in an indoors public space not wearing a mask, you are not fighting for 'civil liberties' you are fighting for 'I don't care about anybody else, including I don't care if you die.  All that matters is 'muh freedom.'"


I can't agree with this more. At my job, I've seen this time and time again. I've had to checkout a number of customers in recent weeks who were not only maskless, but were also eating or drinking right in front of me. And I had another maskless customer who slapped me on the back and was laughing in close proximity to me just yesterday. Moreover, I've heard co-workers of mines complain about having to deal with maskless customers, stating that they are not showing them respect or that they are exasperated by how so many people simply don't care about what's going on. This pandemic truly has revealed the selfishness of many people in our society.
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