Do you support Catalan independence from Spain? (user search)
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  Do you support Catalan independence from Spain? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: ?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 72

Author Topic: Do you support Catalan independence from Spain?  (Read 2521 times)
America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,445
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -3.48

« on: September 09, 2017, 02:15:14 AM »

No. It's time to stop breaking independent countries into small, weak pieces. Not a fan of "what the people want", either. The people's nationalistic feelings are easily manipulated by politicians.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,445
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -3.48

« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 03:52:49 AM »
« Edited: September 09, 2017, 03:57:10 AM by Parrotguy »

No. It's time to stop breaking independent countries into small, weak pieces. Not a fan of "what the people want", either. The people's nationalistic feelings are easily manipulated by politicians.

If not "what the people want", then who??? Authorities? What if i don't give a damn about them?Huh?

On issues of Independence, if the conquest was recent or if the situation becomes unsustainable and painful for both sides, the elected leaders should negotiate on terms. If the public likes these terms, they'll keep these leaders in office or vote for them in the first place.
I'm a supporter of representative democracy on issues that require a clear knowledge of issues and consequences, especially if said issues cause strong emotions that are exploitable by populist leaders, such as nationalism. Brexit was a very obvious case of the people choosing something because of exploitation of their emotions and sometimes blatant lies from the Yes side, a choice many are regretting now that the consequences are clearer.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,445
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -3.48

« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 02:50:08 AM »

No. It's time to stop breaking independent countries into small, weak pieces. Not a fan of "what the people want", either. The people's nationalistic feelings are easily manipulated by politicians.

If not "what the people want", then who??? Authorities? What if i don't give a damn about them?Huh?

On issues of Independence, if the conquest was recent or if the situation becomes unsustainable and painful for both sides, the elected leaders should negotiate on terms. If the public likes these terms, they'll keep these leaders in office or vote for them in the first place.
I'm a supporter of representative democracy on issues that require a clear knowledge of issues and consequences, especially if said issues cause strong emotions that are exploitable by populist leaders, such as nationalism. Brexit was a very obvious case of the people choosing something because of exploitation of their emotions and sometimes blatant lies from the Yes side, a choice many are regretting now that the consequences are clearer.

Proof would be nice pls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-leave-voters-remain-worst-event-2016-eu-referendum-european-union-a7500571.html

Admittedly, most Yes voters probably stubbornly stand with their decisions, just like Trump voters. But I do think some are regretting it now that the nationalistic lies about healthcare were exposed. Referendums on issues such as independence let populist politicians exploit emotions and lie, and that is something I can't support. If thr people of Britain truly wanted Brexit, thry should've gotten Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage elected.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,445
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -3.48

« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 05:29:49 PM »

No. Catalan Nationalism seems to be mainly based on a smug superiority over southerners, like if the Northern League pretended to be left.

Nationalism is a curse, especially by thr "left". Imagine if all those young leftist activists matching for yet another nation-state put their efforts into something that actually helped the cause?

What about Palestinian nationalism?

also bad, as is Israeli nationalism (i.e. Zionism of an exclusive character). I do not see why either ordinary Israelis or Palestinians will be helped out by a "two-state solution" which bifurcates a territory which should be a home for both groups of people into two weaker, gerrymanderd states at  permanent odds with each other. If Jews wish to settle in the West Bank and Gaza that is their right, and if Palestinians wish to return to their homeland that is also their right. Unfortunately, would require overturning all the nationalists on both sides with no interest in uniting people, and only in the right-wing identity politics that proclaims that "nation-states" should be created to be safe spaces for an ethnicity or language.

Jews did not fare well as a minority. In fact, they fared terribly, murdered and abused in countless pogroms and then in a genocide.
Can you really not see why do we want one state where we're the majority?
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