Israeli General Election (2nd of March, 2020): Madness

[Lord Halifax]

When is the vote scheduled?

Should be Wednesday but it seems Bibi gave a green light to Edlstein to defy the court ruling. This is turning really ugly really fast

Can't the opposition MKs just ignore Edlstein and convene anyway?

[Lord Halifax]

Benny MacDonald?

Who is that?

[Lord Halifax]

"The Tibi coalition" is an interesting (read: delusional and shamelessly racist) way to describe a Zionist-center-left minority government that would have had outside confidence and supply from the Arabs. But delusion and shameless racism (whether against Ostjuden or Sephardim and Mizrahim or Arabs) have characterized a certain current in the Zionist center-left for a very long time, so I agree with you that it's not logical for these people to prefer a fundamentalist ethnarchy over AAAAAH AY-RABS.

I wouldn't see you downplay the significance of "outside confidence and supply" when it would be a hypothetical CDU-FDP coalition with AfD outside support in Sachsen (or indeed similar hypothetical arrangements with much more mainstream parties on the European right). What's the difference?
Current and recent former JL MKs have made endlessly more problematic comments on Jews than Höcke ever did.

Apart from that, Zionism is about Jews being in control of their own Jewish state. A weak minority government relying on Arab parties who are outright hostile to the idea of Israel as a Jewish state would seriously jeopardize this idea of Zionism and everyone who is intellectually honest knows this.

I guess you missed the part where it says that all Israelis are equal under the State.

That has nothing to do with what Zionism is about. The Israeli constitution is not a 1:1 reflection of Zionist ideology.

[Lord Halifax]

"The Tibi coalition" is an interesting (read: delusional and shamelessly racist) way to describe a Zionist-center-left minority government that would have had outside confidence and supply from the Arabs. But delusion and shameless racism (whether against Ostjuden or Sephardim and Mizrahim or Arabs) have characterized a certain current in the Zionist center-left for a very long time, so I agree with you that it's not logical for these people to prefer a fundamentalist ethnarchy over AAAAAH AY-RABS.

I wouldn't see you downplay the significance of "outside confidence and supply" when it would be a hypothetical CDU-FDP coalition with AfD outside support in Sachsen (or indeed similar hypothetical arrangements with much more mainstream parties on the European right). What's the difference?
Current and recent former JL MKs have made endlessly more problematic comments on Jews than Höcke ever did.

Apart from that, Zionism is about Jews being in control of their own Jewish state. A weak minority government relying on Arab parties who are outright hostile to the idea of Israel as a Jewish state would seriously jeopardize this idea of Zionism and everyone who is intellectually honest knows this.

I guess you missed the part where it says that all Israelis are equal under the State.

That has nothing to do with what Zionism is about. The Israeli constitution is not a 1:1 reflection of Zionist ideology.

Zionism & equal rights for Israeli Arabs aren't mutually exclusive. Any adherent who believes otherwise is just trying to cover for not giving a f**k about 21% of Israel's population.

They may not be, but your "gotcha" argument ("guess you missed...") isn't valid.

[Lord Halifax]

"The Tibi coalition" is an interesting (read: delusional and shamelessly racist) way to describe a Zionist-center-left minority government that would have had outside confidence and supply from the Arabs. But delusion and shameless racism (whether against Ostjuden or Sephardim and Mizrahim or Arabs) have characterized a certain current in the Zionist center-left for a very long time, so I agree with you that it's not logical for these people to prefer a fundamentalist ethnarchy over AAAAAH AY-RABS.

I wouldn't see you downplay the significance of "outside confidence and supply" when it would be a hypothetical CDU-FDP coalition with AfD outside support in Sachsen (or indeed similar hypothetical arrangements with much more mainstream parties on the European right). What's the difference?
Current and recent former JL MKs have made endlessly more problematic comments on Jews than Höcke ever did.

Apart from that, Zionism is about Jews being in control of their own Jewish state. A weak minority government relying on Arab parties who are outright hostile to the idea of Israel as a Jewish state would seriously jeopardize this idea of Zionism and everyone who is intellectually honest knows this.

I guess you missed the part where it says that all Israelis are equal under the State.

That has nothing to do with what Zionism is about. The Israeli constitution is not a 1:1 reflection of Zionist ideology.

Zionism & equal rights for Israeli Arabs aren't mutually exclusive. Any adherent who believes otherwise is just trying to cover for not giving a f**k about 21% of Israel's population.

They may not be, but your "gotcha" argument ("guess you missed...") isn't valid.

It is, though. Last I checked, Zionism is still supposed to be structured on democratic principles.

Democracy doesn't equal liberal democracy, it can also mean the right of an (ethnically or culturally defined) people to govern itself (rule of the majority). The core of Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to have a national homeland, and if there is a conflict between that and liberal principles (as enshrined in the constitution) then you can't just assume that the latter takes precedence for every Zionist. If one were to follow your logic you can't be a Zionist unless you believe in liberal principles incl. minority rights, and that's a meaningless definition.

[Lord Halifax]

Democracy doesn't equal liberal democracy, it can also mean the right of an (ethnically or culturally defined) people to govern itself. The core of Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to have a national homeland, and if there is a conflict between that and liberal principles (as enshrined in the constitution) then you can't just assume that the latter takes precedence for every Zionist. If one were to follow your logic you can't be a Zionist unless you believe in liberal principles incl. minority rights, and that's a meaningless definition.

Are you implying there exist alternative forms of democracy based on ethnicity, such as ''Jewish democracy'', ''Arab democracy'', or ''Chinese democracy''? I don't think so

I concur that Zionism and liberal democracy are not indivisible. Far from that, the mainstream rightwing revisionist Zionism is blatantly racist and illiberal. But there's a brand of liberal Zionism that tries to reconcile the notion of ethnic state with the principles of liberal democracy, as it's enshrined in the constitution. In case of conflict (unavoidable), it seems clear many Zionists give precedence to ethnicity

I mean that majoritarian rule without the strong liberal focus on minority rights is also a form of democracy (rule by the people via its elected representatives).
You can be in favor of an ethnically defined nation state (e.g. a Jewish state) which marginalizes ethnic minorities and still be a democrat.