Transgender woman charged with indecent exposure over Ohio YMCA incident

[Devout Centrist]

If a straight cis male went into the women's locker room, people would rightfully be mad (myself included).

But if a transgender woman (who is statistically lesbian) goes in, nobody says a word, despite the factors that make a straight cis man's reasons for being there concerning still being present.

Why? What’s the reason?

[Devout Centrist]

A pre-op trans women who would be a heterosexual man if they weren't trans is the same as a heterosexual man being in a women's locker room.

No? They’re transgender.

[Devout Centrist]

How does that change anything?

People who transition typically present as their preferred gender. This means wearing clothing of their preferred gender, taking hormones such as estrogen as part of a clinical process to transition, altering their vocal range, and much more.

Cisgender men like me don’t do this.

[Devout Centrist]

It is absolutely fascinating to me that the leftwing position on this forum (and probably the mainstream establishment leftwing position in general pretty soon) is that women should just get over it and accept that they'll occasionally have to change in the presence of naked people with penises when they're in the locker room and if they don't like that then they're a bigot who probably also want lesbians to be kicked out of women's locker rooms. I know this forum is 99% men but I wonder if women on the left would be equally supportive of such a bold take.

The hard part is usually getting naked in front of other people in a locker room. Once you’ve got that down…

[Devout Centrist]

Well if it’s not a problem making people with male anatomy share locker room with cis women, why is it a problem to make trans women share locker room with people with male anatomy?

In the vast majority of cases, trans women wear female clothing and have taken hormones that alter their gender expression to make them appear more feminine. While I don’t think it’s a big issue, trans women are distinct from cisgender men and ought to be able to use a locker room that matches their gender expression.

[Devout Centrist]

So trans women risk being sexually assaulted if they share locker room with someone with male anatomy but cis women don’t?

Why are you bozos so focused on the anatomy? Trans women are 4x as likely to be victims of sexual assault than a cis person is.

If your goal is “as few instances of sexual assault in locker rooms as possible”, then you should support letting trans women in women’s locker rooms.

Because if non-transient trans women are not a threat to cis women, then men aren’t a threat to trans or cis women either.

The big issue with letting men into a woman's locker room isn’t sexual assault - it’s sexual harassment. There are valid safety concerns regarding that, and I think it’s best to err on the side of caution there. I should note this is the same reason why having trans women in a men’s locker room is not a great idea.

As it applies to a woman’s locker room:

1. Transgender women are an extreme minority of the population. Less than 1% in most areas and less than .1% in some.
2. In any given woman’s locker room, the number of transgender women is likely to be very low. This would not be the case if cisgender men were let into woman’s locker rooms.
3. If a transgender woman starts sexually harassing cisgender women, we have the law to deal with such cases.
4. If a cisgender man were to disguise himself as a transgender woman (unlikely as that may be), there are methods to find someone acting in bad faith and the law can deal with them accordingly.
5. People have all sorts of reasons for feeling uncomfortable in a locker room setting. I believe we should do our best to accommodate people, but there’s no guarantee of comfort in life. We cannot, for example, ban particularly ugly or fat people from a locker room just because some in the room may not be comfortable with their presence.

The issue with placing transgender women in a ‘handicapped’ or private room is rather obvious: it singles them out for harassment and is blatantly discriminatory.

[Devout Centrist]

Lia Thomas
There's also some who are big and very visually born male.
...and then's people's who don't even pretend.

I apologize for the double post, but you do realize that cisgender woman can also be quite tall or masculine in their appearance right? Simple statistics would indicate that the number of tall cis women is many more than the number of tall trans women (even if, proportionally, trans women are taller than cis women).

[Devout Centrist]

4. If a cisgender man were to disguise himself as a transgender woman (unlikely as that may be), there are methods to find someone acting in bad faith and the law can deal with them accordingly.

Why would this be unlikely?   If one goes by self-ID and trusting people are whatever they say
are, there is no method to find someone acting in bad faith.

The vast majority of cisgender men aren’t sexual predators. Not to mention that men can already crossdress and pretend to be *cisgender* women in order to get into a woman’s locker room. We have no evidence of such an epidemic happening in the past, so why would one happen now?

[Devout Centrist]

The Venn diagram between men and women barely touches each other, so pretending that everyone can't see that a person like Lia Thomas who was in the start of his treatment is born male is ridiculous.

You can certainly tell that Lia Thomas was born male (in part because it is a matter of public record now), but there are cisgender woman who look quite similar to Thomas and definitely those who look similarly masculine. That’s my point.

[Devout Centrist]

because now someone can get away with it far easier because they can say they are a woman no matter well they pass as one physically, and even after they've pulled out their dick, and people are inclined to trust them on it.

If this thread is anything to go by, this actually invites *more* scrutiny, not less.