Australia General Discussion 4.0: It ain’t easy under Albanese

[GoTfan]

The voters have been telling us for 20 years that they don't want people coming to Australia by boat, and the Greens and the left generally have spent 20 years telling them they are racists and xenophobes. This has done more than any other issue to drive low-income people into the arms of Dutton and Hanson.

Mate,

You are a racist an xenophobe.

[GoTfan]

The voters have been telling us for 20 years that they don't want people coming to Australia by boat, and the Greens and the left generally have spent 20 years telling them they are racists and xenophobes. This has done more than any other issue to drive low-income people into the arms of Dutton and Hanson.

Mate,

You are a racist an xenophobe.

I am only "right wing" relative to the Communist Party of Talk Elections. I am a member of the ALP, the party of Curtin. Whitlam and Hawke. You yourself wouldn't know Labor values if you fell over them.

I have a suggestion for the Herald Sun and The Age on a joint campaign: make Jordan De Goey a Greens Senator. Then his behavioural issues won't be noticed.

I AM LITERALLY AN ALP MEMBER YOU HALFWIT.

Also:

[GoTfan]

You are admittedly a socialist. An ideology which is unelectable in a modern Australian FE or SE. Which is rightly why our last truly socialist PM was in the 1940s. The fact that this led to 23 years in Opposition....

I'm a social democrat, dipstick. I mark myself as a socialist because it triggers people like you.

[GoTfan]

You are admittedly a socialist. An ideology which is unelectable in a modern Australian FE or SE. Which is rightly why our last truly socialist PM was in the 1940s. The fact that this led to 23 years in Opposition....

I'm a social democrat, dipstick. I mark myself as a socialist because it triggers people like you.

Albanese, Wong etc. are social democrats. But, you, Bandt, Mckim, the psychopathic curried woman et al, are not.

Really? I'm not? So you have a better knowledge of my political views than I do.

Also, 'pscyhopathic curried woman's. Yeah you're a racist, mate. No wonder you love the old ALP. You'd fit right in with people who think that White Australia was the greatest policy ever.

"11.b. Could the American Indians have repelled the Europeans?

   No, nor any other people from the Old World who might have discovered
   the New. Even apart from a considerable technical edge (guns, but also
   metal working, shipbuilding, etc.), the Europeans had a decisive
   advantage because of their diseases. Due to their late settlement of
   the continents and lack of domesticated animals, the native Americans
   lacked any immunity to most Old World diseases, which meant a
   catastrophic population collapse (definitely higher than 50%, and
   perhaps more than 90%) in the first generations following contact.
   Deaths on a similar scale will necessarily follow *any* extensive
   contact between the hemispheres."

I mean, it's just laughable at this point. I link you to Wikipedia, the most basic of sources, that indicates a breadth of historical opinion that argues what happened in Tassie was genocide, and that the countervailing viewpoints argue not that massacres occurred but as to whether genocide was the intent, and you respond with some quote about Native Americans.

Absolutely no-one denies that a significant portion of Indigenous deaths in the wake of colonisation were down to disease. But that fact and the fact of intentional massacres are hardly mutually exclusive.

Instead of denouncing anyone that corrects your novel views on history as a communist, perhaps you should educate yourself.

He can't. He genuinely believes that the Greens are communists, despite not actually endorsing any communist veiwpoints. In general, he believes that anyone who opposes him is a communist, which makes him about as politically literate as a certain fat man from Queensland.

[GoTfan]

The left tends to have a collective misunderstanding of what the electorate is thinking and about what issues are influencing the voters.

Just as you have a severe misunderstanding of what communism is.

[GoTfan]

Is that like how Veganites deliberately use civilians' misunderstanding of sentient and sapient to prove their intellectual and moral superiority?

Thus confirming to the plebs the justness of their hatred for the urban multicultural progressive elite.

Thanks for the Asylum material lol.

[GoTfan]

I idly wonder if my friends on here will ever bother to make the actual distinction between racially inept and racist?

Racist is such a better weaponised term, however.

"Racially Inept" lol

If it's like socially inept, that means you "...don't know how to comfortably socialize, engage in conversation, and calmly interact with other races."

So, basically racism.

He seems to have a penchant for inventing words and terms out of nowhere. I still have no idea wtf a boatist is, and I'm not sure what a veganist is either.

[GoTfan]

Getting back to actual news and ignoring the narcissist, I'm a bit disappointed that Labor's ICAC will only hold public hearing in 'exceptional circumstances'. Who gets the power to decide what 'exceptional circumstances' are? The courts? The government? Seems a bit nebulous to me. I'll wait to pass judgement, but still, a bit diappointed.

[GoTfan]

Getting back to actual news and ignoring the narcissist, I'm a bit disappointed that Labor's ICAC will only hold public hearing in 'exceptional circumstances'. Who gets the power to decide what 'exceptional circumstances' are? The courts? The government? Seems a bit nebulous to me. I'll wait to pass judgement, but still, a bit diappointed.

It is interesting wording, apparently designed to appease the Coalition, which is evidenced by how quickly Dutton came out in favour of it - although, to be fair, a federal ICAC is probably one of the biggest issues you'd want to get opposition support on in order to lend it legitimacy.

There is actually a list of what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" which they mention on the latest Insiders (always worth a listen of course). The Greens and Teals have expressed concern that subjects of investigation may tie up the commission's proceedings by appealing to court to keep their hearings private. Dreyfus has responded a few times in Question Time that the government doesn't anticipate that will happen - but the wording is similar to the Victorian legislation which does have comparatively fewer public hearings.

Of course, most hearings of anti-corruption commissions at the state level are in private, and that reflects the fact that they aren't trials as such, they're investigations - and police investigations of private citizens are generally private for obvious reasons.

Still, former Chief Justice of the High Court Michael Barker (sorry to link to Sky News) thinks that instead of "exceptional circumstances," a "public interest" test should apply. This obviously has its own difficulties - the Leveson Inquiry in the UK brought to light a lot of stories that courts deemed to be in the public interest but were obtained through extremely questionable journalistic practices, demonstrating that the "public interest" test can also be fraught. I'm not educated in the law beyond HSC Legal Studies, but I would have thought since an anti-corruption commission is generally investigating public figures, a "public interest" test would be fairly easy to satisfy and would de facto result in most hearings going public.

Former head of the NSW ICAC Ian Temby also argues a "public interest" test should apply (and his arguments about the innuendo that surrounds investigations when it comes to light private hearings are being held are compelling), but also argues for a 12-month limit on investigations and findings, so that those who are being investigated aren't left in indefinite limbo and reputational damage - Berejiklian is still waiting to hear any findings against her, for example.

Food for thought.

The wording around "public interest" and "exceptional circumstances" just seems way too nebulous to me. And like I said, who decides whether something falls in the public interest?

[GoTfan]

Well damn, Sky News just broke the irony metre.

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAust/status/1588500209453395970?t=MGlJ4IK2air60mdyPuL...

[GoTfan]

Surprised to see no discussion of the censure of Morrison in the House over the secret ministries scandal - ScoMo was pissed off in Parliament.

Personally I didn't really see the point of the censure.

It is pretty much a slap on the wrist, but Morrison, like Slugg, seems incapable of recognising that Australia is moving past the right wing fossil era where religion permeated everything and First Nations Australians were treated like dirt.

[GoTfan]

Looking back further to the 1966 election, the ALP hopeful for PM then was a 70 year old left winger - sound familiar? - but unlike Corbyn in 2019 he had lost not one but two previous elections.

Sounds pretty inexplicable even at a time when leaders losing was more tolerated than it is now.

Was it mainly down to factionalism?

he remained, reasoning that Evatt had been given three opportunities to win, and that he should be allowed a third try
Very much a "left-winger" of his time, though.

Slugg's ideal PM.

[GoTfan]

What has happened to Latham is genuinely extraordinary.

Did bitterness and resentment over not becoming PM simply drive him mad?

Would be genuinely interested in any of our Australian (or otherwise knowledgeable) posters explaining the Latham journey, because from the outside it’s just looks utterly bizarre.

It's a political metamorphosis that one can only reach through, I suspect, constant grifting. After 2004, we wanted nothing more to do with him, so he had to look for another way back to relevance, ergo, he becomes a Hansonbot.

I don't even think he even believes what he's saying.

[GoTfan]

I still stand by my belief that he doesn't believe what he's saying.

[GoTfan]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64245422

This feels infinitely worse than all those blackface scandals. At least those outside of the US you could argue ignorance until a decade or so ago. I'm not sure how you could think that wearing a Nazi uniform was ever OK.

However it’s important to note this is an obvious hit job on Perrottet by Clubs NSW in retaliation for his anti-gambling proposals. The timing is very blatant.

But hey, at least they didn’t firebomb his house like they totally definitely 100% didn’t do to Jordan Shanks/friendlyjordies.

I remember bringing that up a while back.

[GoTfan]

The Western Australian opposition has imploded in hilarious fashion today.

Her Accidency the Opposition Leader Mia Davies has stepped down from leadership, and looks likely to retire at the next election. WA Nats only have 4 MPs but it looks like they might still have a 2 way fight (their 4th MP only won a by-election 6 months ago, so couldn't really be involved)
Onto the worst job in Australian politics, leader of the WA Liberals. Who have decided to put on a complete farce. They only have two lower house MPs, both career backbenchers until the shellacking in 2021. One became leader. The other has decided to challenge him in a farcical leadership spill. It looks like she has the numbers (there are 7 upper house MPs in addition to the lower house duet).

Only in Australia could a party of four have a leader resign and a contested election And a party of two have a leadership spill. No I'm not joking.

Between this and the Robodebt Commission, how do the Liberals as a whole hope to win the next elections?

And yes, I say elections because the Liberal Party right now is a farce and from what I can see, stands little chance in nearly every election for the next few years. Tasmania is the exception

[GoTfan]

So Lidia Thorpe has quit the Greens.

She is truly a left wing clone of Pauline Hanson. She wants to be Australia's AOC, but lack a single one of AOC's qualities.

[GoTfan]

So Lidia Thorpe has quit the Greens.

She is truly a left wing clone of Pauline Hanson. She wants to be Australia's AOC, but lack a single one of AOC's qualities.

I haven't followed Australian politics that closely lately, but I still don't understand why exactly she opposed the Voice.

Long story short: She had no real objections. She saw it as a chance to grandstand because, like Hanson, she's a narcissist.

[GoTfan]

Yes. This is a real headline. This is not Betoota Advocate. It is real.

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAust/status/1622840222861099008

[GoTfan]

Ben Fordham having a crack at Albanese on the issue of the welfare card.

https://omny.fm/shows/ben-fordham-full-show/soft-as-sponge-cake-ben-slams-labor-for-scrapping

Calling him "soft as a sponge".

I can't say what my opinion of Fordham is because this is a good Christian forum and not a secular blog.

In other news, Sky breaks the irony metre again:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAust/status/1622931813915312129

[GoTfan]

Any chance of a flip to the ALP?

The ALP are of course downplaying their chances. It is very difficult for seats to flip from the opposition to the governing party (the ALP completely failed in Gippsland in 2008, and the Coalition failed to flip a number of marginals seats from 2014-2020) despite some speculation they could do so, so it would be a big achievement if Labor were able to do so this time.

The positives for Labor this time is that they genuinely do seem to be enjoying a big honeymoon period federally (but of course this has happened before and not resulted in flips). The Andrews government appears to have been less popular at the time of the federal election, but had a clear victory at the state election, more time has passed from the lockdowns, and is now enjoying a bit of a honeymoon period itself. Also, my crude estimate of the Senate result for Aston under compulsory preferential voting is 49% Labor, so a couple % better than the House, which suggests the already thin majority is quite soft.

It makes sense to play things down, considering that a federal government almost never wins contested by-elections in marginal seats, but despite the slightly lowering approval rating for Labor, I think people are happy with what they see so far. Most I suspect are still frightened Morrison will attempt a comeback, or are afraid of Peter Dutton. Andrews' opinion polls may be lowering as well, but he did win the state election pretty comfortably despite one of the biggest media campaigns in recent memory. I will die on the hill that the Australian media has become a campaign vehicle for the Coalition in recent years.

Either way, the Liberals pretty much have to win this one. They've not been performing well in Victoria lately. I suspect they will win, but then again, I also suspect that it will be far too narrow for their liking.

[GoTfan]

Member for Aston Alan Tudge is set to resign. Unknown what excuse he'll use to deflect from abusing his mistress.

Speculation is already mounting that Josh Frydenberg will take the opportunity to run in the by-election and return to politics.

Aston noticeably went 53-47 Liberal so it will be interesting to see the results of the by-election. ASV, could you see Labor winning Aston?

That result was as close as it was because Alan Tudge was widely disliked for his ongoing scandals and moral failure.  It's likely that the Liberal vote in Aston will have a small rebound despite the favorable national and state environment for Labor.

The direct response to the scandal is only part of it. Because of it he was basically barred from the campaign trail, so the Liberal ground effort in Aston was incredibly weak and unenthusiastic. The sizeable Chinese population (14%) drove the swing up further.

I still can't work out what was going on in Dutton's head when he thought starting up a sabre-rattling campaign regarding China was a good idea.

[GoTfan]

Whose currently more dominant in the NSW Labor party as far as the right and left wing factions go?

The NSW Right has held hegemony over the state party since the 50s thanks to the split being averted north of the Murray, and is still the most powerful federal grouping even if the Left holds a narrow federal majority. The NSW Left faction has long been neutered and controlled, and has better relations with the right than in other states. Until 2009 the NSW Labor branch was an electoral juggernaut which granted them even more national influence. Their electoral meltdown of the last 15 years has damaged that, and power within the Federal party has been shifting towards the Victorian branch, which has been left controlled for a while now however with incredibly bitter and acrimonious relations between their messy factions.

Disappointing. Thank you for giving me more insight!

You shouldn’t be disappointed, it isn’t like factional control has an impact on policy. It’s more about pre-selections and union favouritism, policy is jointly decided in private between the factions and the usual pollsters and focus groups. (Public) Disunity is Death

Not to worry, we are not as united as everyone believes.

[GoTfan]

Paul Brereton has been nominated to head up the NACC. Excellent choice by Dreyfus; Brereton is the sort of man the NACC needs: Deep investigator, politically impartial, unflinchingly honest.

[GoTfan]

So Mark Latham has made some disgusting comments regarding Alex greenwich, the Independent gay MP for Sydney.

I won't repeat them here because they are beyond disgusting. Go on Twitter and have a look at them if you so desire.