Israel general discussion

[RightBehind]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

This Sanders supporter is Pro-Palestine. I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm against the terrorist state that is Israel. They're a parasitic country. The United States owes Israel nothing. My allegiance is to America, not Israel.

Remember: Israel needs America. Not the other way around.

[RightBehind]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

This Sanders supporter is Pro-Palestine. I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm against the terrorist state that is Israel. They're a parasitic country. The United States owes Israel nothing. My allegiance is to America, not Israel.

Remember: Israel needs America. Not the other way around.

Well, aren't you charming.

I'm speaking the truth. AIPAC are complete scum who pull puppet strings in this country.

I'm proud to say I do not stand with Israel.

[RightBehind]

Israel is probably the only country that would rather want Trump more than even Hillary. We need to stop acting like they're our brothers and start treating them like other countries. I'm so sick of Israeli hypocrisy over the Jewish state nonsense while grabbing more land. It only hurts Americans.

Is there any center-leftist that can run for Labor leadership and win? At least give us some hope instead of replaying the cycle

Criticizing Israel is an unofficial crime in this country. We need someone to stand up to their atrocities.

[RightBehind]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They were. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

[RightBehind]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

I mean, all the rest of this garbage aside, let's not pretend that if Israel "led the fight against ISIL" by hitting them with overwhelming force, you would do anything but call them the new Hitler.

ISIL is the enemy. Netanyahu contributed to their rise. Let him help take them out with us.

[RightBehind]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

These are attitudes common among Bernie supporters and under 30s in general. Israel will not be able to count on unconditional US support for much longer.

I was against Israel before I even knew who Bernie was. Many of my fellow Americans and myself have been indoctrinated into thinking Israel is so wonderful. Then I learned about the demolitions they have done and the Palestinians they have imprisoned. It made me second guess everything.

[RightBehind]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

I mean, all the rest of this garbage aside, let's not pretend that if Israel "led the fight against ISIL" by hitting them with overwhelming force, you would do anything but call them the new Hitler.

ISIL is the enemy. Netanyahu contributed to their rise. Let him help take them out with us.

Explain how Netanyahu contributed to ISIL's rise.

Supporting the U.S. to go to war and topple Saddam, which in turn helped contribute to their rise.

[RightBehind]

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies? That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They wire. That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

Let Israel stand for themselves. Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL. I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

These are attitudes common among Bernie supporters and under 30s in general. Israel will not be able to count on unconditional US support for much longer.

Nah, they're not. America is moving towards greater support for Israel, not less, which you can clearly see in polling over the last 15 years. College left-wing activists hate Israel, but then again, they have ever since that became fashionable in the 1980s.

You're not even repeating the old lies so we can rebuke you. You're just stringing together random negative buzzwords.

What lies?

Let me go through this post claim by claim.

That Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were terrorists? They were.

Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir used some unsavory tactics against the British colonizers, I won't deny that, but then so has every other independence movement in history. Regardless, two men who used unsavory tactics 70 years ago and were last relevant in the Israeli leadership more than 25 years ago don't explain why we shouldn't support Israel now.

That Israel oppresses Palestinian children and that the real monsters are the likes of Ayelet Shaked? It's completely true.

If you really think Israel is oppressing Palestinian children, as opposed to the government that bans music and uses them as human shields, you need to rethink your entire worldview. Ayelet Shaked is Justice Minister and has nothing to do with treatment of Palestinian leadership.

Let Israel stand for themselves.

Why? Why should we give up on a fantastic ally that has been unfairly maligned for its entire existence for entirely racist reasons?

Let Netanyahu lead the fight against ISIL.

Unfortunately, the folks on the frontlines against ISIL are unwilling to fight alongside the evil Zionists. If this were not the case, you can rest assured Israel would be there.

I guess the Islamic State was amongst the enormous positive reverberations he was talking about when he went before Congress in 2002.

Israel has committed evil atrocities. We must divest and they must be sent to The Hague.

First of all -- divestment (which I had the great pleasure to speak out against earlier today at a student government event here at OSU) is an absolutely terrible idea, especially because it would disproportionately hurt the exact same Palestinian children you seemed so concerned about just a few short sentences ago (since many, many Israeli companies employ Palestinians). The leadership of the Palestinian Authority have spoken out against it numerous times over. Unless you're both very anti-Semitic and very anti-Arab/Islamophobic, there's zero reason for you to support divestment.

You keep mentioning the evil atrocities. I'll accept there were crimes committed during the 1940s and 1950s (though they were far outweighed by the reverse ones, and ultimately justified in the context of the time), but I challenge you to find a single one after 1960.

Finally, I long to see the day when the present Gazan leadership is at the Hague (or, even better: put up against the wall by the people they've been oppressing since 2007). Israel will never be there, as you well know.

Israel will only never be there as long as AIPAC has a firm grip on American politics. Almost every other country around the world can see Israel's crimes. I'm sure we do, but criticizing Israel in this country is an unofficial crime in and of itself.

Israel is not an ally. It is a parasitic nation. Every parasite needs a host to survive. The United States, unfortunately, is that host. I'm not arguing for the destruction if Israel but rather repercussions for the things they have done.

As far as post 1960 goes, just look up the number of UN resolutions they have violated.

Keep in mind I'm not a fan of Sharia Law by any stretch of the imagination. Let's not pretend like Israel is this perfect country that does no wrong. I saw a story last year of an Israeli politician advocating for segregated roads between the two groups. That's apartheid.

Did you read the comments Shaked made? That is advocating of genocide. It's evil. It's ugly. Begin and Shamir were no different than Bibi. The Likud Party brings out a lot of ugliness in Israel. Begin getting the Peace Prize was a joke.

I will not stand with Israel. We owe them absolutely nothing. It's not being anti-Semitic. It's not me being anti-Muslim. This is complete injustice on their end and our hands are tied. If only the politicians in this country all united and rebelled against AIPAC.

My allegiance is to America. Not Israel.

[RightBehind]

Feel free to ignore me all you'd like. If there's really justice out there, and I believe there is, people will take a stand against Israel and they'll be punished.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

[RightBehind]

I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy.

Exactly, so why are you still whining about Israel?

I'm against all sorts of injustices. What Israel does to Palestine is one of many. I oppose what the Saudi government does on human rights. I oppose the Sharia theocracy of Iran. I oppose our actions of toppling governments when we didn't have to.

[RightBehind]

I'm against all sorts of injustices. What Israel does to Palestine is one of many. I oppose what the Saudi government does on human rights. I oppose the Sharia theocracy of Iran. I oppose our actions of toppling governments when we didn't have to.

I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy.

Pick one.

When we're in the wrong, let's condemn ourselves. Let's also oppose what others have done wrong, too. I want a change in our foreign policy for the better. Allying ourselves with Israel and Saudi Arabia in its current form is not ideal to me.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

I want anyone and everyone to destroy the Islamic State. I don't care which country it is.

When you call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel on things in response to something else you find unfair, you're not being the bigger person.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

I want anyone and everyone to destroy the Islamic State. I don't care which country it is.

When you call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel on things in response to something else you find unfair, you're not being the bigger person.

First up, I'm not interested in being the bigger person. Not anymore. We've been trying to do that for centuries, and it led us to the ovens. That's why Israel is so important to me - because it's the best insurance against a second Holocaust we've ever had.

And second, I'm not calling you anti-semitic. I haven't seen enough evidence to go with that, unlike other posters, who like to throw around slurs and make explicitly anti-semitic comparisons. I do think, however, your focus on Israel's "culpability" for Iraq has shades of anti-semitic arguments and you should probably drop it. Bush didn't need any outside forces pushing him to war with Iraq. Israel bought into the presented evidence just like most of America.

I want you to know that I condemn the holocaust just like everyone else. I also want you to know I don't approve of Israel's treatment of Palestine. Both are wrong and my heart goes out to the victims and families in both situations.

My whole point on Israel and Iraq is that it only shows how much influence Israel has on America and it should not be.

I support a two state solution with a decreased Israel lobby influence while also protecting religious freedoms for Jewish people here and other religious groups.

I do not want a second Holocaust. I do not want Israel wiped off the map. I simply want what I believe to be an injustice to be corrected and that is a free Palestine.

[RightBehind]

Unless young people (who overwhelmingly support the Democrats) radically change their political opinions, then I do think Israel has a lot to worry about.

and the uneducated people don't like Israel either.

So I don't like Israel. Therefore I'm not educated.

Nah; you've given more specific reasons for that (like your belief that the US isn't morally superior to Cuba, or your belief that Israel encouraged the US' war in Iraq, or your belief that individual politicians can characterize a nation).

I never said we're not morally superior to Cuba. I'm simply saying criricisms about us are valid when it comes to morality and that given our foreign policy track record in the last 100 years, we shouldn't lecture the rest of the world on freedom and democracy. What good is preaching American values if we don't often exercise them on the world's stage?

Also, it is proof that Netanyahu actually encouraged the American invasion of Iraq back in 2002. Look it up.

A whole lot of people supported that war. Holding Israel in any way responsible for what was primarily led by George W. Bush's grudge against the dictator who tried to murder his father is anti-semitism.

It's not just one person or one country. Anybody in power or influence who supported that war bears responsibility.

Stop thinking criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. It's fair game.

And yet I don't see you talking about Poland or the UK's responsibility to stop ISIL.

Plus, again, if Israel started aggressively bombing ISIL bases tomorrow, can you honestly tell me you would support it? Or would you be talking about Eebul Israel bombing Muslims again?

And I'll stop calling certain criticisms of Israel anti-semitic when Israel critics stop blaming us for the US' mistakes and terrorizing American Jews on college campuses.

I want anyone and everyone to destroy the Islamic State. I don't care which country it is.

When you call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel on things in response to something else you find unfair, you're not being the bigger person.

First up, I'm not interested in being the bigger person. Not anymore. We've been trying to do that for centuries, and it led us to the ovens. That's why Israel is so important to me - because it's the best insurance against a second Holocaust we've ever had.

And second, I'm not calling you anti-semitic. I haven't seen enough evidence to go with that, unlike other posters, who like to throw around slurs and make explicitly anti-semitic comparisons. I do think, however, your focus on Israel's "culpability" for Iraq has shades of anti-semitic arguments and you should probably drop it. Bush didn't need any outside forces pushing him to war with Iraq. Israel bought into the presented evidence just like most of America.

I want you to know that I condemn the holocaust just like everyone else. I also want you to know I don't approve of Israel's treatment of Palestine. Both are wrong and my heart goes out to the victims and families in both situations.

My whole point on Israel and Iraq is that it only shows how much influence Israel has on America and it should not be.

I support a two state solution with a decreased Israel lobby influence while also protecting religious freedoms for Jewish people here and other religious groups.

I do not want a second Holocaust. I do not want Israel wiped off the map. I simply want what I believe to be an injustice to be corrected and that is a free Palestine.

Except, see, once again you have this backwards.

Bush wanted the US to go to war in Iraq even before 9/11. This is confirmed. Israel may have agreed with him (especially after being presented the same evidence), but they certainly didn't "influence" him.

If anything, on Iraq, Israel did the US' dirty work, not the other way around. Israel had reasons to want Saddam gone, for sure, starting with Saddam's bombing of Israel during the Gulf War, but that just meant they had common cause with Bush and his long-standing grudge.

So if you want to make a case about the Israel lobby, Iraq is very much the wrong place to do it.

Go watch what Netanyahu said before Congress. He has since gotten a second stint as PM. Now that he is back in power, he should be reminded of his words and no Iraq invasion means no destabilization which led these monsters to rise up.

His prediction of enormous positive reverberations has been the complete opposite. Let him and his military play their part in destroying these terrorists.

[RightBehind]

Stop whining, Berniebro. Jesus, it looks ugly.

I have a right to voice my opinion about them and if you wish to do so and criticize me, you also have that right, but I won't stop condemning Israel for the things they have done.

[RightBehind]

Well that waa then and this is now. Sharon is deceased. Bibi is back in power. If he never had a second stint, I'd have less of an issue with it. Since he's back in, I'd like to see Israel play a role in destroying these monsters.

[RightBehind]

And I would like to have a BMW. And a mansion with a swimming pool. But an important part of growing up and becoming an adult is knowing that you sometimes don't get what you want, Berniebro.

That doesn't seem very adult of a response on your behalf.

[RightBehind]

And I would like to have a BMW. And a mansion with a swimming pool. But an important part of growing up and becoming an adult is knowing that you sometimes don't get what you want, Berniebro.

That doesn't seem very adult of a response on your behalf.

I mean given that you're basically the one throwing the equivalent of a three year old's temper tantrum in this thread, not sure you're one to talk.

Not sure how it's a temper tantrum. Who am I personally attacking?

[RightBehind]

And I would like to have a BMW. And a mansion with a swimming pool. But an important part of growing up and becoming an adult is knowing that you sometimes don't get what you want, Berniebro.

That doesn't seem very adult of a response on your behalf.

I mean given that you're basically the one throwing the equivalent of a three year old's temper tantrum in this thread, not sure you're one to talk.

Not sure how it's a temper tantrum. Who am I personally attacking?

The purpose of this board is for Danny to give us updates on the most recent Israeli junk polls, hnv1 to alert us on which labour bureaucrat is stabbing his rival for control of a doomed party, and DavidB to  remind us that, yes, srugim are a thing. Not included is overgrown manchildren from the 2016 board whinging about how they REALLY REALLY HATE ISRAEL for the twenty thousandth time. Your presence is unwanted, and a nuisance. Begone.

I have a right to my opinion as do you.

[RightBehind]

Not sure how it's a temper tantrum.

...

In 72 hours, you managed to make 20 (!) posts to this thread which can be summarized as follows: "I don't know anything about either Israeli politics or the history of the US intervention in Iraq, but Israel is responsible for it, I'm just so Very Angry about all this, but it's all cool because I'm really, really not an anti-Semite!" If that's not a typical BernieBro temper tantrum, albeit a rather long one, then what is?

What I would say is they aren't responsible for it but played a role in it and Netanyahu was the same war hawk then that he is now.

Criticism of Israel does not mean being anti-Semitic. Not at all.

[RightBehind]

And I would like to have a BMW. And a mansion with a swimming pool. But an important part of growing up and becoming an adult is knowing that you sometimes don't get what you want, Berniebro.

That doesn't seem very adult of a response on your behalf.

I mean given that you're basically the one throwing the equivalent of a three year old's temper tantrum in this thread, not sure you're one to talk.

Not sure how it's a temper tantrum. Who am I personally attacking?

The purpose of this board is for Danny to give us updates on the most recent Israeli junk polls, hnv1 to alert us on which labour bureaucrat is stabbing his rival for control of a doomed party, and DavidB to  remind us that, yes, srugim are a thing. Not included is overgrown manchildren from the 2016 board whinging about how they REALLY REALLY HATE ISRAEL for the twenty thousandth time. Your presence is unwanted, and a nuisance. Begone.

I have a right to my opinion as do you.

The etiquette for ignorant babble is comparable to that for nudism- if you MUST express yourself, do so within the confines of your own home, alone, else risk getting called out by angry passersby.

I'm not afraid of getting called out and debating people here. Why you're so offended is beyond me.

[RightBehind]

Even though Sanders is the most Israeli critical of all the serious presidential candidates, a lot of holier than thou leftists who are always anxious to call people out want to pin him as being pro-Israel. This is a major problem because most young people in America (his base) are basically pro-Hamas.

This Sanders supporter is Pro-Palestine. I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm against the terrorist state that is Israel. They're a parasitic country. The United States owes Israel nothing. My allegiance is to America, not Israel.

Remember: Israel needs America. Not the other way around.

Why are you so anti-semitic? This thread is about general Israel discussion, not about personal opinion on politics.

Israel is not immune from criticism and criticizing Israel does not equate with anti-Semitism.