Alabama Megathread: Bombshell allegations

[Virginiá]

Clearly deleting emails is more reprehensible than molesting children and feeding them alcohol.

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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928734837887954950

This isn't a democrat failure it's a culture failure

Yup. This is what I've been saying all this time as people scapegoated policy, campaigns, Hillary Clinton, or whatever else to explain Trump. Now it is clear as day for the world to see.

And the thing about this is, Doug Jones winning won't flip the Senate, and it wouldn't completely halt the Republican Party's ability to legislate, and it's not like Jones is by any means favored to keep the seat if he won it, either.. It would just be a moderate impediment to Congressional Republicans, but that's how bad it is. People would rather vote in a sexual predator than give even a tiny bit of power to the other side - even if it makes no difference in the end.

Although, I guess to be fair, a local Republican Party chairman is still a massive hack - their position demands they be, so I'm not sure if they are the best representation for this. Party people like Jerry Pow are essentially obligated to support their party 100% no matter what, even if the entire Congressional delegation is caught eating children on video.

[Virginiá]

Greg Gianforte won in Montana this year the day after he body-slammed a journalist; I don't really have faith that these accusations will sink Moore at all. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Well, as has been stated a ton of times since the MT special, the body slam happened after most of the votes were already in. It's possible Gianforte would have still won even if he body-slammed a reporter right before voting started, but as it stands, Montana is a bad example to use when arguing whether certain things matter or not.

[Virginiá]

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Sean Hannity doesn't know the difference between David and Solomon (the King who actually had 700 wives and 300 concubines).

In a way it's kind of amusing watching how far some of these conservatives will go to defend their politicians, as if not doing so would be the end of the world.

I'd like to say this is a new low for Hannity, but somehow I feel he's done worse.

[Virginiá]

Sabato:

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Oh wow. To be fair, I probably wouldn't believe it if I hadn't heard the news coverage of it yet. I'd probably be like "lol wtf?"

Not believing stuff or flat out throwing their hands up and saying they don't even care has been the foundation of Trump supporters justifications for continued support of Trump, so I imagine it is the same for Republicans in general.

In their minds, it's not that they would support someone they know to be a sexual predator, it's that they don't (or won't?) believe the accusations, because they can't break free of their tribal/partisan thinking.

[Virginiá]

@TexArkana: Could you remove the empty lines in your signature to make it shorter? It's a bit too tall with them

[Virginiá]

Can we please avoid another fight about IceSpear's opinion of places like AL/WV?

Seriously. Make a new thread or drop it.

[Virginiá]

Alabama Republicans float pushing back special election

That is bs. Just because they screwed up with a pedo candidate who was awful in so many other ways even before this doesn't mean they can just change the election date like this. They are not entitled to run an election with the perfect candidate.

This is literally moving the goalposts.

[Virginiá]

I think that is like problem number 97 on the list of problems with that idea. The first problem being moving an election because your candidate is losing is the kind of thing a country like Myanmar would do. And there's no way they would move the election if the democrat was the one with the problems.

I dunno, maybe they would move the election up

[Virginiá]

Something not being technically illegal does not make it moral or ethical. If someone went up to my 17 year old sister and was 32 asking her on a date, I would grab a shot gun.

I agree it’s very odd and creepy but this is 40 years ago he has been married for 35 years if it turned this happened within the past 35 years I would unendorsement because then he’s cheating on his wife.

Err, are you saying that because he wasn't married at the time of pursuing teenage girls, you are fine keeping your endorsement, or did I misunderstand that?

[Virginiá]

My wife said she heard the governor of Alabama had some power to delay the election. Is that correct?

Maybe not. This is a special election for a US Senate seat, states are not supposed to begin a special election, send out ballots, have voting begin and then just halt/push it back because the ruling party decided its candidate wasn't good enough.

I'd like to think almost anyone could see major problems with that - legal even. You should expect a lawsuit if they try.

[Virginiá]

But as to changing the ballot at this late time, you Democrats did it in New Jersey in 2002.  What is good for Democrats is not ok for Republicans I guess.

I have less of a problem with this if the state explicitly has a procedure for a case where a candidate becomes grossly unacceptable. What is happening now is basically Republicans trying to change the rules right before an election.

1. Doug Jones - This guy has run a fine campaign, so because Republicans chose a monster who had a plethora of issues even before this latest one, Jones has to somehow find the money to wage a 2nd campaign against Republicans' new candidate? How the hell is that fair?

2. Afaik, Torricelli dropped out. Moore is not dropping out, at least so far. And I saw a brief comment on this on ELB, there was apparently some basic legal foundation for replacing the person on the ballot. But either way, the election was not postponed. Why should Alabama get to do that? If you want him out so bad, get him to drop out so state officials can replace his name on the ballot. I still think it's bs because AL state  law doesn't allow that, but its a lot better than moving the election back.

3. Politicians have scandals all the time during campaigns. We don't move elections for them. Why is this special - because it's such a huge one involving something so sensitive? Where do we do draw the line? What if in the future, another Republican has a much less serious scandal and the party wants to move the election for them to make sure they win with another candidate? Surely you can see why this is not a good thing.


The way I see it, Moore was a crappy person before the primary and he's way more crappy now. You guys are stuck with him. It's not our fault Alabama chose a sick person like him, and you shouldn't be allowed to just cancel elections when your candidate gets a huge scandal. I don't get why some Republicans are thinking the rules are different this time.

And it's not like there is not any recourse within the rules - Republicans can do a write-in campaign. It's been done successfully for a current Senator, so instead of changing the rules and literally moving the goalposts a month before the election, your party should get working on that.

[Virginiá]

Call off the lynch mob. So, vote as you would have before the claim.

The Republican leadership are such pantywaists. They turn into week kneed jello at the first sign of trouble.  The Democrat leadership usually stands and fights.

Do you seriously like Moore this much, or do you just feel obligated to defend your team's guy? More people are coming forward, including former co-workers, who are corroborating these stories. It's not like this is the only thing to come out about Moore, either. For instance, he seems fond of taking millions from charities to pad his bank account.

Moore is not a stand-up guy. Why are conservatives always picking the worst people, and when the scandals predictably start unraveling, they defend them no matter how absurd they look. I mean for gods sakes, it's not like there aren't clean Republicans you can run. What is so appealing about these trashy candidates?

I just wish conservatives such as yourself would, once in a while, take a step back and consider that maybe it's not worth going to bat for some of these people.

[Virginiá]

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This is from Harry Enten.

Doug Jones, PLEASE do NOT repeat Hillary's mistake of focusing solely on your opponent as a person.  Hit it HARD on the policy issues!  You GOTTA win this thing!

Isn't this race competitive solely because of his character issues? Normally I agree that campaigns shouldn't be run like Clinton's, but in this case, I mean, it seems much more viable for obvious reasons.

[Virginiá]

What amazing times we live in for an Alabama megathread to have 60+ pages, with a second thread likely needed through election day.

[Virginiá]

What amazing times we live in for an Alabama megathread to have 60+ pages, with a second thread likely needed through election day.

Can I please extend my co-ownership of this current thread to the next one? I have a very big ego.

Sure, why not. Create a new one now even (and just let it go empty until needed), and when this one gets to 77 - 78 posts, PM me with the link again and I will sticky it/etc

[Virginiá]

No one should really be surprised by EnglishPete here. He defends most Republicans like this. The highest burden of proof is required for Republicans, while minimal proof required for everyone else. This is a story he was never going to believe unless Moore was caught loving on kids on video tape, 100% visible, and even then I still suspect he'd find ways to nitpick. The only thing that never ceases to amaze me about him is how oblivious to his own behavior he is. From his perspective, everything seems logical, straightforward and quite dumbfounding to him how no one else sees it the way he does.

Factoring in his deep distrust of the media and any other organizations or people that attempt to fact check conservatives, he is a very good example of the wave of paranoia that has infected conservatives over the past decade or two. They can't possibly be wrong, or possibly pick the worst candidates, no, everything is a conspiracy against them


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Anyway, let's please try not to derail this thread. As a veteran of previous EnglishPete derailments, I won't hesitate to forcefully move this thread back on track.

[Virginiá]

I don't disagree with anything you say about him but it's kinda crappy that you go on a rant about EnglishPete and then just say "ok no one talk about it anymore!" Either you do or you don't but you don't do and then use your authority as a mod to shut down discussion.

I didn't say everyone stop talking about it immediately. I was just trying to remind people that if the next 3+ pages becomes nothing but arguments with Pete as they used to in the past with Russia/media-related threads, I'd move to stop that. He has a tendency to dominate discussion with controversial opinions.

Apologies if that was the impression it gave.

[Virginiá]

This is almost at 2,000 posts, so let's move to the new thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=277182.0