COVID-19 Megathread 4: Grandma Got Run Over by the Dow Jones

[Omega21]

Remdesivir has shown promise and I'm definitely interested to see its potential, but the FDA approval process is slow and deliberate.  By approving a drug or treatment, the FDA is basically saying "we have conclusively determined that this item's benefits outweigh its risks."  And with something novel like COVID-19, they need to do more thorough testing before upping its status from compassionate use designation.  

There's no time left. People are dying RIGHT NOW.

I know, I know.  But ethically, medical providers can't just say "let's try it! If it works it works.  If it doesn't, it doesn't" -- especially with a novel drug such as remdesivir.  The "doesn't work" side of the coin isn't restricted to simply not having any effect at all.  It could mean adverse and dangerous side effects.  It could mean unexpected interactions with other drugs.  

The unknown is a major factor in the administration of novel medications.  Politics and money aside (though, hey, it's drug companies, so those are always considerations), that's why testing is so important and so deliberate.  

I never got the fact why it isn't possible for a patient to say let me try it, I accept every possible risk...

[Omega21]

Let's lighten the mood a bit.

[Omega21]

[Omega21]

Different, recent trial results on a clinical trial of chloroquine diphosphate.

The high dose CQ arm presented more QTc>500ms (25%), and a trend toward higher lethality (17%) than the lower dosage. Fatality rate was 13.5% (95%CI=6.9-23.0%), overlapping with the CI of historical data from similar patients not using CQ (95%CI=14.5-19.2%). In 14 patients with paired samples, respiratory secretion at day 4 was negative in only one patient. Interpretation Preliminary findings suggest that the higher CQ dosage (10-day regimen) should not be recommended for COVID-19 treatment because of its potential safety hazards.

French study finds hydroxychloroquine doesn't help patients with coronavirus.

A drug that's been touted by President Donald Trump as a "game changer" didn't help hospitalized patients with coronavirus and was associated with heart complications, according to a new study.

"This provides evidence that hydroxychloroquine does not apparently treat patients with Covid 19," said Dr. Paul Offit, an infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "Even worse, there were side effects caused by the drug -- heart toxicities that required it be discontinued."

Trump has said that hydroxychloroquine shows "tremendous promise" and has made it sound like the drug is harmless. "I think it's going to be great," Trump said at a White House briefing on March 19.

https://us.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html

Damn it. What about other drugs, I remember one Japanese drug that is also being tested?

We need something if we want to go back to how it was before.

[Omega21]

A friend of mine told me that even a vaccine won't be very helpful, since the virus is likely to mutate and render such a vaccine useless. We will be socially distancing for many years to come.

Then they'e got to figure something else out because there is no point in living longer if you make everyone miserable. There's no point in living to be eighty if you're just going to spend your whole life alone in a room with your only link to the outside world being a screen.

If I was offered a choice of living a full life and living to be 70 vs eternal social distancing and living to be 80 I'd take the first choice and so would any sane person.

1000% agree, I don't know why there's this talk of "social distancing until 2022" like sorry but it's wrong to force the rest of us to sacrifice our futures so that people who were going to die soon anyway get a couple more years.

My wife was reading something a couple of days back, like 80% or something of the people who have died in TN would have likely died within a year from their underlying health conditions anyway. And I'm guessing almost all the rest were elderly and although you couldn't for sure say they were going to die soon they probably would have anyway.

A new exponential increase in hospitalizations = system at capacity = people with other conditions have less access to care = possibly die.

Unless we get something to help with this, like a drug that at least eases the severity of the illness and thus shortens the length of hospitalization, things would not go back to the way there were, regardless of what the Govt says or does.

Plus, something about TN tells you sh*t all about the wider picture.

Social Distancing until 2022 could mean just no extremely large gatherings, so no, you're definitely not staying locked up that long lol, no country or economy could handle that.

Different, recent trial results on a clinical trial of chloroquine diphosphate.

The high dose CQ arm presented more QTc>500ms (25%), and a trend toward higher lethality (17%) than the lower dosage. Fatality rate was 13.5% (95%CI=6.9-23.0%), overlapping with the CI of historical data from similar patients not using CQ (95%CI=14.5-19.2%). In 14 patients with paired samples, respiratory secretion at day 4 was negative in only one patient. Interpretation Preliminary findings suggest that the higher CQ dosage (10-day regimen) should not be recommended for COVID-19 treatment because of its potential safety hazards.

French study finds hydroxychloroquine doesn't help patients with coronavirus.

A drug that's been touted by President Donald Trump as a "game changer" didn't help hospitalized patients with coronavirus and was associated with heart complications, according to a new study.

"This provides evidence that hydroxychloroquine does not apparently treat patients with Covid 19," said Dr. Paul Offit, an infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "Even worse, there were side effects caused by the drug -- heart toxicities that required it be discontinued."

Trump has said that hydroxychloroquine shows "tremendous promise" and has made it sound like the drug is harmless. "I think it's going to be great," Trump said at a White House briefing on March 19.

https://us.cnn.com/2020/04/15/health/new-french-study-hydroxychloroquine/index.html

Damn it. What about other drugs, I remember one Japanese drug that is also being tested?

We need something if we want to go back to how it was before.

Favipiravir (Avigan) by Fujufilm is the Japanese drug.

 There is also an anti-parasitic drug that has been used effectively because doctors believe it somehow blocks the rna of Covid-19 allowing the body to fight off the virus since it can't replicate as quickly. It is called Ivermectin and has been used to fight parasites for decades. Doctors have anecdotal results of it working in 24-48 hours.

 

Thanks for the answer!

I really hope the Drug Agencies around the world will skip some of their bureaucratic nonsense and treat this with the urgency it requires.
 

[Omega21]

Revised further downward to 60,000 deaths.

Never should have shut the economy. Stupid overreaction.

You realize... that it's down to 60,000....  BECAUSE of the stringent measures we've taken over the last month? How are people this dense?!

Excuse me, I believe the PC term for that nowadays is mentally thicc.