Austrian Elections & Politics 2.0 (Presidential runoff re-vote: 4 Dec. 2016)

[Omega21]

The Greens are currently facing a backlash from the OVP and the FPO.

This came about when the Green pary member Ahmet Demir compared the Burka to the habit Nuns wear. He also posted a picture of two nuns with a sarcastic comment.

Now, It is worth to mention that he is a Muslim, and seeing as he supports the Burka he is not a very progressive Muslim, even though he is in the Greens.

This comment was written probably because of the Foreign Minister Kurz (OVP) and FPO's call for a ban on the Face veil, NOT the entire Burka.

If the ban was put into motion the Burka would not cover the Face, just every other part of the body. This is the same as the Habit, so I really don't know how he could call out the Habit seeing as it does NOT cover the face.

The comment was called out as inappropriate, rude and so on.

More on the story: http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Gruenen-Politiker-empoert-mit-Burka-Vergleich/248044284

(It is in German. If you don't speak German and use Google Chrome, Right click on the page and Translate to English. Most of the story will be understandable.)

[Omega21]

During the presentation of the "Integration Report 2016", Foreign and Integration Minister Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) said that he wants to better integrate refugees into the labour market and society by creating thousands of 1€-jobs or mandatory community jobs for them - using the German model.

This would be instead of them receiving generous welfare payments or being added to the unmployment rolls, where they get generous unemployment money from the state (850€ a month per single person, 14x per year - or up to 3000€ a month for families).



Kurz's opinion is that the 100.000s of refugees should do their bit for the society by doing some local work or low-paid jobs, for the hospitality they received from Austrians over the past years.

Those refugees who refuse to take these 1€-jobs or community jobs, could face significant cuts in their state welfare payments (up to a total cut).

At the same time, he called for a facial veil ban in Austria - much like the rest of the ÖVP, the FPÖ and the TS. SPÖ, Greens, NEOS are largely opposed or critical to a veil ban.

http://derstandard.at/2000043010224/Kurz-will-Pflicht-zu-Ein-Euro-Jobs-fuer-Fluechtlinge-und

Could this make some OVP voters vote for Hofer in the Election?

OVP is fairly conservative and I wouldn't be surprised if some were put off by the Greens Political stance on the Burka/Welfare for Migrants..

[Omega21]

What are the chances that VDB wins the revote?

It's a lottery.

The 2 Most Recent OSTERREICH polls show Hofer at 52, VdB at 48.

But this does not mean much, as it can turn either way.

I would say the odds are 50/50, but I think VdB is in a slightly worse position because of all the problems with Immigration and so on.

[Omega21]

Couple questions for you:

What's VdB's stance on immigration? What's Hofer's stance on climate change/the environment?

Edit: Changed "policy" to "stance" since the prez has less power over there.

VdB on immigration: Pretty much Green Party policy, very friendly to immigration and refugees (he's a former refugee himself) - but favours some controls to uncontrolled mass immigration (like we have seen it last year).

Hofer on the environment/climate change: You'd expect that Hofer is a climate change denier, coming from a Far-Right party, but that's not the case. In this Presse article ("Norbert Hofer - The secret Green ?"), experts say that Hofer (who's also the FPÖ's environmental speaker) is actually more radical on the environment than some Greens.

Hofer is strongly against nuclear energy (as pretty much everyone in Austria) like the Greens and calls for heavy investments into Green energy, such as wind and solar power. Hofer also wrote a book called "Energy and consumer goods - Basics for Freedom", in which he favours that Austria goes all-Green by 2045, with subsidies for (newly constructed) houses with solar panels on their roofs, etc.

http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/4992173/Norbert-Hofer-der-verhinderte-Grune

So why are you voting VdB ? It seems like Hofer is a perfect candidate for you, as he is against the Mass Immigration, pro Enviroment, and Liberal in a lot of different topics.

Is there any particular reason you like VdB more, or is it just because you dont want to vote for anyone in the FPO?

[Omega21]

Couple questions for you:

What's VdB's stance on immigration? What's Hofer's stance on climate change/the environment?

Edit: Changed "policy" to "stance" since the prez has less power over there.

VdB on immigration: Pretty much Green Party policy, very friendly to immigration and refugees (he's a former refugee himself) - but favours some controls to uncontrolled mass immigration (like we have seen it last year).

Hofer on the environment/climate change: You'd expect that Hofer is a climate change denier, coming from a Far-Right party, but that's not the case. In this Presse article ("Norbert Hofer - The secret Green ?"), experts say that Hofer (who's also the FPÖ's environmental speaker) is actually more radical on the environment than some Greens.

Hofer is strongly against nuclear energy (as pretty much everyone in Austria) like the Greens and calls for heavy investments into Green energy, such as wind and solar power. Hofer also wrote a book called "Energy and consumer goods - Basics for Freedom", in which he favours that Austria goes all-Green by 2045, with subsidies for (newly constructed) houses with solar panels on their roofs, etc.

http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/4992173/Norbert-Hofer-der-verhinderte-Grune

So why are you voting VdB ? It seems like Hofer is a perfect candidate for you, as he is against the Mass Immigration, pro Enviroment, and Liberal in a lot of different topics.

Is there any particular reason you like VdB more, or is it just because you dont want to vote for anyone in the FPO?

I would never vote for the FPÖ or one of their candidates, for historical reasons.

You are right that to many Hofer is a likeable, down to earth guy and not a lunatic like Trump with some good positions on the issues - but I'm worried about the party he belongs to ...

If you have the time, could you please say why you are worried and write down the historical reasons you mentioned.

I am not informed on this topic as well as you since I have only been learning German for a year and a half, and I didn't pay any attention to Austrian politics before then..

I am aware that some FPO founders have a Nazi past, but many former High ranking SPO officials also do..

There is book about this, published by Cambridge. I read it a while back (Page 110):

https://books.google.ba/books?id=q3oLu8I8hVMC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=nazis+in+the+spo&source=bl&ots=55hT2r-726&sig=d-NQCAgBkcrSAnzmoT83LOcIXG8&hl=sr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqm_bIlNDOAhXGBsAKHc66CsEQ6AEIKTAC#v=onepage&q=nazis%20in%20the%20spo&f=false

Do you think the FPO could become a Fascist/neo-Nazi party or cause violence like the National Socialists?

[Omega21]

Meanwhile The Green party is against the withdrawal of Asylum status for Asylum seekers who commit a crime and get convicted..

http://www.krone.at/oesterreich/gruene-jetzt-klar-gegen-asyl-entzug-fuer-kriminelle-konter-auf-sobotka-story-525796

http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Kriminellen-Asylstatus-aberkennen-Gruene-dagegen/248412734


This should help Hofer more.

[Omega21]

Hofer has revealed his new posters. He will be using the same slogan Thomas Klestil used in 1992..



http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Norbert-Hofer-kopiert-Klestil-Slogan/248777792


Meanwhile Tender,

Am I mistaken or do you live in Zell am See?

I read in the news today that some Arabs were very nice to a Police officer, so much so that they bit him, spat on him and kicked him.. Also they threw rocks at a bank, because they didn't like one of the employees.

[Omega21]

In a weird series of events it turns out that the slogan was first used by the FPO in 1973, not by Klestil.

[Omega21]

New Poll (Sample 600):

Hofer broadens his lead over VdB.



http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Umfrage-Hofer-faehrt-VdB-davon/248809486

[Omega21]

Hofer is a miracle. A miracle that got 50% of the vote even though everyone in the political/business elite is against him. It is only logical that companies profit from 100 000 new people who get 850+ euros to spend per month ...

[Omega21]

It's poster destruction season again:



Instead of "political power needs control."

it now says:

"Austria does not need Nazis."

What kind of scum does this?

I was in Wien until today, during those 15 days i saw about 30 vandalised Hofer posters, 0 vandalised VdB posters.

Seems like the extreme Left is more full of hate than the Right.

Also saw things like "communist youth of Austria" with stickers like Eat the reach, and the anti Fa group with posters of people shi*ing on Hofers picture in the Toilet..

[Omega21]

  Assuming some of those anti-Hofer stickers that Omega saw said "eat the rich" that would be ironic since Hofer would have won the first round of the election had it not been for the vote of the wealthy.  Also ironic is the fact that leftist groups are so strongly against the candidate who is so strongly supported by the blue collar working class. I guess its not the mid 20th century anymore.

Those communist stickers are not really made for the sole purpose of defacing him, it's just that they stick it on his Face..

The Extreme Left in Austria is almost always <30 years old, does not have a good job (or any)(exceptions are available), is European (mostly), and will turn hostile if you even mention that you like any kind of Right wing party.
Most of them vote Green or SPO, and I would say they account for about 3% of the 12% vote the Greens have.

Basically they think they are good people because they are ultra liberal and write things like "No Man is illegal" all over underpasses ( I have seen this a lot in Wien). Strange, I'm a student in Austria and still need an ID to cross the border or I would be arrested, guess that's meant for people coming from the Middle East, as they can't be illegal...

They also have 0 knowledge of economics, and think that giving out free money is sustainable when the hard working Austrians leave the work force. Because you know, Kern and Haupl have printing machines in their basement.

And that i could gather just by being in Austria for a relatively short amount of time.

I hope I don't get another Post ban because of this, as I am talking about defacement of Election posters.

[Omega21]

22 September 2026 (57th Presidential runoff):

Today VdB has died, Hofer is the new president by default...

Seriously, why don't they just allow postal voting for absentees and people who are not fit to go to the precinct..

At least for now..

In other news,

The Green youth has released pictures of them posing with posters saying

Austria is fiction
Borders are overcome (thing of the past)

This is how I understood it, so if its wrong Tender can correct my mistake.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/junge-gruene/sets/72157631878917186/

I am astonished at how little knowledge of the real world these people have, guess 70 years of prosperity and a high living standard makes them think everyone in the world is Polite, Educated and brought by Western standards..

[Omega21]

Yeah.

Like I said, joke country.

"Joke country" with one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Update:

Seems that the Elections will be moved to later in the year.

[Omega21]

I am astonished at how little knowledge of the real world these people have, guess 70 years of prosperity and a high living standard makes them think everyone in the world is Polite, Educated and brought by Western standards..

Well, they certainly have never met you.

This is, actually, a very serious point. For 70 years Europe (and the West in general) had the immunity - after the horror of the last War, that generation did not need to learn history to know why liberalism is important. That generation is gone, and it turns out the immunity was temporary. Alas, given the trends it is quite likely the new innoculation will be happening spontaneously pretty soon. Every vote for Hofer and the like is a vote for a major European war. I am afraid, those kids - nor the rest of us - will have a chance to enjoy peace and prospertiy much longer.

And you think deleting every border in the World is a smart decision?

Do you really think letting in Radicals of all sorts will help the problem, because if that didn't happen in the first place I'm not sure we would be having 9/11, London, Brussels, Paris, Nice, Germany (the most recent attacks)

And that's just the top of the Iceberg. If you follow any sort of Austrian media, just search for Volk Fest. Seems that some nice Afghans and Syrians had a good time with Austrian women, without their consent of course.

So every vote for VdB will not make this worse (because presidents do sh**t all), but it would be a signal that the people still want more and more of this BS.

I assume you are from Mexico, 1.5% (about 150k) of the Austrian population are Asylum Seekers. 850 Euros/Month each, and most usually get more.

So, since Mexico has 119 Million Residents, 1.5% of that is  about 1.800.000.

So if you want to be as nice as Austria, please accept 1.800.000 Refugees and pay them out a Minimum of 850Euro (1000$) Monthly.

But I doubt that is ever going to happen, so stop pouring salt on the brains of Europeans who have given out more than Mexico will in 5 Centuries.

And you really have never been to Europe if you think "Big Bad Hofer" will cause a 3rd World War. FPO is Right Wing, but that's where it stops.

Look up NPD and Golden Dawn, those are one of the only neo-Nazi parties left in Europe. And guess what, they have close to no votes.


UPDATE:

Vdb says he hopes that the Vote will still be in 2016, but we can expect a delay of at least up to November, unless the government has some magic solution to the Glue problem.

http://www.krone.at/oesterreich/van-der-bellen-werden-klebstoffkrise-loesen-hoffentlich-2016-story-528887

[Omega21]

Strache and Hofer made it onto the TIME magazine cover (Oct. 3 edition):



(Despite not winning any election recently, just getting good results) ...

Kind of funny how someone can compare Hofer to Trump.

I guess Americans are not satisfied that they are choosing between Devil #1 and Devil #2 in their upcoming election.

[Omega21]

   Tender, what are the latest developments with Austria reaching its quota of migrants for the year? I thought it was going to hit the limit around last month.

The government initially set a limit of accepting 37.500 asylum seekers for this year.

At the end of September, Austria had 34.700 asylum requests - with an additional 3-4.000 each month.

So, the quota would be reached by the end of October.

But the government has found a way to mislead the population again, by only using "processed" asylum requests for the quota (which is "only" 28.000 so far).

This means that the quota and "emergency measures" will likely not be met for the year, because the govt. is keeping the real numbers down.

Still, the costs for refugees (basic income/welfare, unemployment money, housing benefits, child benefits, German-courses, employment courses etc.) are exploding.

According to the 2017 Budget Speech yesterday, 2.1 billion € will be spent next year on this matter.

http://orf.at/stories/2362039

That's why I'm paying a course price which tripled from last year. Paying for myself and 2 Refugees..

But don't mind me, I'm just a guy who actually has a passport and a Document stating I'm not a criminal.

[Omega21]

New Poll by Gallup is out.

Hofer keeps the lead with 51%, the OVP hits a new low and continues losing voters to other Parties.

FPO again at 35%.





http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Umfrage-Schwarz-stuerzt-ab/257385904

[Omega21]

Today, Israeli Secret Service (Mossad) legend, agent Rafi Eitan who captured Adolf Eichmann 56 years ago, came out and supported the anti Immigration platform of the FPO.

During his visit to the FPO in Wien he has sent out the following messages: "Stop Immigration","Lock your borders", and other things relating to the reduction of the flow of Illegals into the country.

The FPO has stated that they are happy to host such an important guest from Israel and that they want to continue making closer ties.

I think that this is a good think, and that the FPO needs to clear it's image of being an Extreme-right anti Semitic party.

[Omega21]

Hofer (FPÖ) congratulated Trump on his victory in the US presidential election and said he's confident that the (economic) ties between the two countries can be deepened. He also said that he won't change his campaign style and become more agressive because of the Trump-win, because his strength is that he's authentic.

VdB (Greens) said that the Trump win is a wake-up call for the runoff on Dec. 4 to put the respectful "living together" into the spotlight rather than divison. He also said: "The majority of Americans have elected Trump as their President. This has to be respected." (and while he didn't congratulate him for the win, he said he "wishes him the prudence and emotional awareness to fulfill the job.")

http://www.vienna.at/norbert-hofer-gratuliert-trump-zu-wahlsieg-van-der-bellen-sieht-weckruf/5004025

I actually think that this could help Vdb and wake up some Voters that are scared of the "austrian trump"..

Even though Trump makes Hofer look like a Leftie..

[Omega21]

Hofer (FPÖ) congratulated Trump on his victory in the US presidential election and said he's confident that the (economic) ties between the two countries can be deepened. He also said that he won't change his campaign style and become more agressive because of the Trump-win, because his strength is that he's authentic.

VdB (Greens) said that the Trump win is a wake-up call for the runoff on Dec. 4 to put the respectful "living together" into the spotlight rather than divison. He also said: "The majority of Americans have elected Trump as their President. This has to be respected." (and while he didn't congratulate him for the win, he said he "wishes him the prudence and emotional awareness to fulfill the job.")

http://www.vienna.at/norbert-hofer-gratuliert-trump-zu-wahlsieg-van-der-bellen-sieht-weckruf/5004025

I actually think that this could help Vdb and wake up some Voters that are scared of the "austrian trump"..

Even though Trump makes Hofer look like a Leftie..

I think VdB now has a good chance to win (again), but that doesn't have to do with Trump's win.

I think Hofer has a mobilisation problem regarding his voters: I talked to many of my co-workers and (extended) family members, and not few of them voted for Hofer in the actual runoff. But the recent delay of the re-vote because of the glue-problems made many say that they are now not voting anymore on December 4, beause they are "sick and tired of all this sh*t" (their words).

VdB-voters (many of them consisting of Green Party, SPÖ, ÖVP and NEOS voters) usually tend to be more unimpressed by this and generally vote in higher numbers (FPÖ-voters are sometimes hard to mobilise).

Also: VdB is still extremely present with his poster campaign in my district. Every town now has at least 10-20 posters along the roads, whereas there were only a few before the initial runoff. VdB's team has increased his presence in the rural areas significantly. In Zell am See, I have spotted easily 50 campaign posters for VdB, but only about 10 or so for Hofer.

I might be totally wrong (like the Hillary-supporters), but his organisation looks pretty good this time.

The same is in 22nd Bezirk (where i live)...

Hofer has NO Posters here, VdB has a lot..

I guess it's since "Donaustadt heißt Lebensqualität", and mostly Middle-Upper Class people live in my part of the 22nd Bezirk..

[Omega21]

Kind of think that the Candidate that gets more support from the Media and other Political elites will lose in the end, since we did see that with both Trump and Brexit, as both got the Support of the Media and endorsements from various Politicians.

On another note, I saw a few private cars driving around with printed messages saying "don't wonder, Vote on 4.12. VdB X". Hofer has a really bad campaign in the Wealthier Bezirk's, but when I go to the more "enriched" and poor ones it seems like he has a much stronger presence there.

[Omega21]

VdB: "I do not want a President who belongs to a Far-Right fraternity."

Hofer: "The Young Greens do not believe Austria is a nation. They believe Austria is an invented piece. I believe Austria is a nation. And I also do not want a Communist as President."

He also showed a printed copy of the "KOMMUNISTISCHE PARTEI ÖSTERREICHS" Website's post "supporting" VdB.

[Omega21]

Question from the audience:

"In which case would you fire the government ?"

Hofer: "In the case where the gov. breaks the law, security and constitution - which was the case last year when it allowed hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to move through Austria, including criminals and terrorists. We are a LAW & ORDER state and this has to be upheld."

VdB shakes his head and argues like a standard center-left politician ...

Reading these comments I would have thought you are voting for Hofer

[Omega21]

Hofer: "This election will be clean, clean, cleaner. I, nor the FPÖ, will challenge the result again."

Both Candidates are against Legalizing marijuana.

Hofer is for Gay-partnership, but against Marriage. VdB is for Marriage.


Hofer is ahead in the Oe24 Voting, as expected.