Anti-Semitism in UK Labour megathread

[DavidB.]

It's very enlightening to see how some left-wing hyenas on this forum would love to purge anyone who dares to speak up about the deep-seated antisemitism within Labour. I sincerely hope similar-minded British antisemites voice this position publicly, and as much as possible. It will prevent a lot of British Jews from making the wrong choice in the next election.

Meanwhile, nothing but respect for Ray Goldfield, who continues to be the absolute voice of reason on this subject.

[DavidB.]

Great speeches by Ruth Smeeth and Luciana Berger on this subject.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1024398074054156288?s=19

https://twitter.com/KarenPollock100/status/1024646042485227520?s=19

Lol at Owen Smith's pathetic spinning. The late Hajo Meyer was a total nutcase, somebody whose views were hated by most of the Dutch Jewish community and would presumably be hated just as strongly by most of the British Jewish community. I can't even blame him, because he survived Auschwitz, which is just too much for any human being. But his political endeavors against Israel were sickening and tokenizing him as a representative of Jews is just like neoconferates tokenizing Ye for his opinion on slavery; Meyer's extreme opinion of Israel is about as far out there.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1025129858014359553?s=19

In all fairness, you can't really blame Corbyn for this. It's not as if he's been looking to be associated with Duke. Guilt by association.

[DavidB.]

Lol at Owen Smith's pathetic spinning.

Jones, not Smith - very different people!

Wow, you're right, I stand corrected.

[DavidB.]

Interesting how, judging by the posts quoted in this thread that I initially couldn't see, half of the people posting in this thread (and all of those excusing AS) are on my ignore list and have been there for a long time - since before the Labour AS discussion. I wonder how they ended up on my ignore list and what they have in common. Ah well, I suppose it must be that they care a lot about the NHS.

[DavidB.]

Call me hysterical, but judging from the denial about modern Labour that some leftists display, I'm starting to see the answer to that eternal question of "why did people turn a blind eye".

Excellent observation. Incomprehensible how people are still defending this.

[DavidB.]

I was aware of that, and I am not condoning that whatsoever and that is very problematic and bad, however, him being at that event is not symbolic of him being anti-Semitismitic. Also there is no proof that he was involved in the wreath-laying ceremony, that is not to say he should have been there in the first place, which he shouldn't have been at all. I view this in the same light as his associations with the IRA.

Is this what "not involved" looks like, according to you?

[DavidB.]

It doesn't matter how many insanely suicidal Jewish groups people post saying "Actually the Jews have it coming" or whatever twisted rationale it is today. They're irrelevant tokens. Might as well be posting Alan Keyes making the case that blacks commit most of the crimes so mass incarceration is okay.

I think we all know what Corbyn is at this point, but what's really been instrumental about this crisis is just how many people not just stand by him, but stand by his anti-semitic beliefs.

Thank God this world has Israel to keep it in check.

Are you always this disrespectful towards Holocaust survivors? Tokens? Really?

I thought you denied the Holocaust?

[DavidB.]

Corbynists never fail to live down to even the most basic expectations of human decency.

You guys support countless wars and strikes all over the world resulting in the murder of countless civilians but sure 'human decency'.

Oof. Your antisemitism is showing. There are quite some people that I expected this from, but you weren't among them.

[DavidB.]

One of these statements is by Dutch Nazi leader Anton Mussert in the late 1930s. The other one is by Jeremy Corbyn:

"[Jews in country] clearly have two problems. One is they don't want to study history, and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don't understand [country] irony either. They needed two lessons, which we could perhaps help them with."

"[Ideology of party leader] in [country] does not have to be or become antisemitic, because here in [country] we have Jews who are committed to the well-being of the [country] nation with their entire hearts, because they form an unbreakable part of it and in the future wish to remain so."

We've reached the point where Corbyn's statements are more antisemitic than those by an actual national socialist leader who didn't mind 75% of the Jewish population in his country being killed off a mere five years later.

[DavidB.]

Yes and was executed for high treason after it.

Yes, and damn rightly so. It's not making him look good. It's making Corbyn look bad.

[DavidB.]

Tangentially, I've noticed the rhetoric denouncing Corbyn over this incident has been decidedly more shrill than before.

NO ONE IS CONFLATING.

Case in point.

Love the tone policing towards a literal Israeli when this debate is ultimately about whether it's cool for people to say Israel doesn't have a right to exist (hint: it isn't).

So hypocritical for Europeans to argue that Israel wouldn't have a right to exist in the first place, when they live comfortably in nation-states with quite a history themselves. And for Brits to argue that Israel is bad because it would be rooted in colonialism takes a special amount of historical illiteracy and arrogance, on quite a few levels. I would love to know Corbyn's opinion of the Irgun.

[DavidB.]

Love how you assumed I'm British based on an Atlas avatar.

Is this the Atlas version of "did you just assume my gender"? Yes, if you're having a UK avatar and flag I'm going to assume you're British. If you aren't, my point still stands for, I don't know, much of the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn himself - which, with all due respect, seems quite a bit more pertinent to the topic at hand than your position.

[DavidB.]

You didn't seem to think so two posts ago. And, with all due respect, Parrot seems more than capable of arguing his points without you hopping in to make baseless ad hominem attacks against his interlocutors.

The first paragraph of that post was dedicated to you. The second one wasn't. Parrotguy is absolutely capable of arguing for his points, and I am absolutely capable of calling you out on your stupid tone policing from your comfortable chair in God knows which safe and prosperous country that's not Israel.

And as Intell rightly pointed out, there's a spectrum of opinions about what constitutes Zionism/"Israel's right to exist". One can call into question aspects of the current state of Israel without implicating the entire project - something that Corbyn has been quite adamant about over the years, for the record.

This means nothing. Yes, one can call into question aspects of Israeli policy, just as one can call into question aspects of British policy, such as Brexit, which is a disaster. One cannot call into question Israel's right to exist, just like one cannot call into question Britain's right to exist. To do the latter would be considered ludicrous; the fact that the former is even a thing shows people's antisemitic double standards. And if Corbyn would say exactly this, I think all problems would be gone.

[DavidB.]

You know what, I'm not even gonna argue here anymore. This thread is absolutely infested with antisemites of the worst kind. Even actual Nazis are less annoying and intellectually dishonest than some of the people who pop in here on the regular. Absolutely disgusting.

[DavidB.]

Lovely how it's so seldom British Jews who come up with the "buuuut Orbán!" whataboutery. Almost as if they don't think voting against sanctions for Hungary is antisemitic, or as if they think it doesn't compare to laying wreaths at terrorists' graves.

[DavidB.]

At this point it has to be dogwhistling.

[DavidB.]

But this one in particular, it's a bit like saying that everyone who professes to enjoy Wagner's music must be an anti-semite or a Nazi; or that quoting Kipling means you are racists and empire-apologist.

If, hypothetically, Alexander Gauland is in trouble for allegedly being antisemitic, and he decides, during that crisis, to make references to Wagner or some other obviously antisemitic German artist in an approving way, and on that same day he would double down on whatever caused people to think he's antisemitic - then yes, that would make the reference suspect too. I don't think anyone on this board would have problems concluding that it would probably be a dogwhistle, especially if many of these "incidents" had taken place before.

It's not about everyone liking Ernest Jones or Wagner's work being antisemitic. That's not the point and not the case. It's about the person doing it and the timing of doing so.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1051817462814117889?s=19
Shame

Israeli propaganda working overtime to scare people away.

Guido Fawkes is Israeli propaganda now?