Trump warns Israel: Stop announcing new settlements

[DavidB.]

Bad, if true. Still better than any Hillary Clinton administration would have said or done.

[DavidB.]

if you follow that thought you can be in a position to never ever criticize any government, cause you are convinced someone else would be worse.

contrary to obama, who just talked, this government is ready to punish those who disagree with their worldview.

Isn't "bad" criticism? Apart from that... we'll see, but it's clear the main policy architects of the Trump administration have a highly positive view of Israel. That would not at all be the case with a Democratic administration increasingly cosying up to repulsive organizations like J Street. In addition to that, Netanyahu and Trump have a good relationship, which, given Trump's impulsive inclinations, may now matter more than ever.

[DavidB.]

It's probably true. They want to remain in charge, they don't want Israel to set the agenda. While I obviously oppose that as a Zionist just as much as I opposed the Obama administration imposing its wishes on a sovereign Israel, one cannot realistically expect anything different (though it is true I hoped for it...). It does seem as if the Trump admin didn't understand the specific national context in which the last couple thousand of houses were announced; they were necessary to pacify the Jewish Home in the face of the shameful eviction of Amona.

But whatever. G-d has a reason for everything. Perhaps it's for the better and we just don't know. It would be wrong to say I'm not slightly worried. But I'm still optimistic.

[DavidB.]

The Jewish state will die when a two state solution dies, and Jews are overwhelmed in their own "single state" by Palestinian population growth.

This myth won't die, will it?

[DavidB.]

The Jewish state will die when a two state solution dies, and Jews are overwhelmed in their own "single state" by Palestinian population growth.

This myth won't die, will it?

How is it wrong?

Arab birthrate (outside Gaza) going down, Jewish birthrate going up (mainly due to insane Haredi population growth). It's clear Israel in 100 years will look like absolutely nothing we know, but it's not at all clear it will not be a Jewish state.

[DavidB.]

The Jewish state will die when a two state solution dies, and Jews are overwhelmed in their own "single state" by Palestinian population growth.

This myth won't die, will it?

How is it wrong?

Arab birthrate (outside Gaza) going down, Jewish birthrate going up (mainly due to insane Haredi population growth). It's clear Israel in 100 years will look like absolutely nothing we know, but it's not at all clear it will not be a Jewish state.

So in the future Jewish Israel will be majority Haredi? Do you think secular Jewish people will be ok with that once they start imposing their lifestyle all over the place? Also, I've heard Haredi men don't work... how will Israel support itself with such a large nonworking population. Economic disaster.

As for the first question, who gives a f**k? I don't. I'm not a secularist. The second one will be a real problem but it's not unsurmountable. There will be a solution. They will start working if they have to. At some point the free money they get while not working simply isn't going to be there anymore, pretty simple.

[DavidB.]

Arab birthrate (outside Gaza) going down, Jewish birthrate going up (mainly due to insane Haredi population growth). It's clear Israel in 100 years will look like absolutely nothing we know, but it's not at all clear it will not be a Jewish state.

since you seem really informed on that matter, i believe you.

my question on the other hand would be, if such a state would be financially able to exist, if too many of the haredi population are - together with the security system - chewing away the social safety system.

edit: @beet...great minds think alike, haha xD

The possibility of the Jewish birthrate going down or the Arab birthrate remaining high enough for Jews to remain a smaller group still exists, to be clear... but my expectation is that this won't be an issue. Of course it shouldn't matter in the first place because we should apply a non-zero sum perspective to the land where Jews and Arabs can both live in the land without problems, but oh well.

I think a Haredi-led Jewish state could sustain itself. It would probably have a lower level of prosperity. But a two-state solution wouldn't change anything about that.

I'm not anti-Israel and I'm vehemently pro-Israel but Trump has long said he wants peace in the Middle East and views himself as a deal broker. Combine this with the Bush GOP policy on Israel and it's pretty standard behavior for any Administration to start out from the premise of a two state solution.

I don't agree but it's not like Trump is surprising anyone. In fact, this is the most normal behavior he's demonstrated in foreign policy since becoming President.

I agree. People who say "Whoa this is a new GOP" haven't been paying attention during the Bush years.

[DavidB.]

These trends never last.  Certainly not long enough for "economic disaster"... I'd imagine if a Haredi family has 7 kids... a good 2 or 3 probably won't grow up to live that lifestyle.  They'll be moderates and secularists.

It's generally only baalei tshuva (those who weren't raised observant) who have two or more kids who go off the derech, and even that is the exception, not the rule. Kids getting off the derech with "frum from birth" parents isn't too common. It sometimes happens, of course, but certainly not at the rate you describe, and there's no reason to assume it will be different in the future. You also have to remember these kids are trapped in their world. They don't know anything different. Their "skills" are worthless on the job market. And they look down upon the lifestyle of the non-observant. To be clear, as someone who thinks Haredim are painfully wrong theologically and sometimes morally, I am not endorsing any of this. I am just explaining why I expect what I expect.

[DavidB.]

Absolutely true, something will change. I just don't think it will impact their demographic growth, but we'll see.

[DavidB.]

So to make up for returning stolen Palestinian land, new settlements had to be built? Stealing more Arab land

Can't steal what's yours. And it's all ours.

[DavidB.]

Another important thing in the press statement is that it says they shouldn't build settlements "beyond their current borders", which, in fact, hasn't happened for a long time (disregarding undocumented villages also microaggressively known as "unauthorized outposts"); there is a LOT of room for growth inside the borders of these settlements. Much open space outside settlements is within their official borders. Expansion of that area isn't even needed.