Should George W Bush be put on trial for Iraq? (user search)
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  Should George W Bush be put on trial for Iraq? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Q. Above
#1
Yes, Bush should/should have faced trial
 
#2
No, Bush should not face any trial
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 63

Author Topic: Should George W Bush be put on trial for Iraq?  (Read 1219 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
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Posts: 45,412


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

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« on: March 20, 2023, 10:13:51 PM »

Comparing Bush and Putin is completely ridiculous in every possible way . Bush was not a dictator and Iraq unlike Ukraine was a totalitarian dictatorship. Most of the deaths in Iraq were also caused by Sunni Extremists , many who were led by high ranking members of Saddam’s military where they also were responsible for countless Iraqi deaths .

The vast majority of deaths in Ukraine is due to Putin and Russian separatists before that in while  in Iraq it was by Sunni insurgents who also were responsible for countless deaths when they were in power in Iraq .

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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,412


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2023, 08:50:31 PM »

Iraq unlike Ukraine was a totalitarian dictatorship.

Unprovoked aggression doesn't become magically okay if the country targeted is a dictatorship.

Iraq did try to murder a former American president and had also invaded an American ally in the past . To say it was completely unprovoked is just not true
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,412


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2023, 12:43:56 AM »

Comparing Bush and Putin is completely ridiculous in every possible way . Bush was not a dictator and Iraq unlike Ukraine was a totalitarian dictatorship. Most of the deaths in Iraq were also caused by Sunni Extremists , many who were led by high ranking members of Saddam’s military where they also were responsible for countless Iraqi deaths .

The vast majority of deaths in Ukraine is due to Putin and Russian separatists before that in while  in Iraq it was by Sunni insurgents who also were responsible for countless deaths when they were in power in Iraq .



Am I making any of the claims, including that Bush is as bad as Putin or that American forces were directly responsible for every death in Iraq? No, those are your words/straw men.

However the war in Iraq was 100% illegal according to almost all international conventions and any justifications presented have now been proven to be almost entirely fabrications. Let's be honest, the overthrow of a brutal dictator was just a side-piece to real American objectives.

Most Iraqis when asked believe that their lives are worse off and tbh the country isn't in much better of a position, all things considered, than even Afghanistan.

But the important part is the fact that both wars were illegal under international law. And as I said in the OP, if we had a real rules based international order that applied to all countries equally then there would be consequences for that.


Well you posted this days before the Russian invasion and basically implied that even if Russia fully invaded Ukraine , it would take years before it became worse than Iraq . Do you still agree with that or not 

You're right, the Iraq War has caused many times more damage than any potential invasion of Ukraine, particularly a limited incursion into the east, would cause. Drop the American exceptionalism BS, just because you believe the US can do no wrong doesn't mean our sh**t don't stink and at the end of the day, the US has acted every bit as much as an imperialist power in the past as Russia is doing today.

Literally nobody thinks "the US can do no wrong."

Uh, literally that's what American Exceptionalism is all about? And OSR trying to hold up Iraq as some moral success compared to the (comparatively) milquetoast Russian saber rattling in Ukraine is just insane. Iraq was many, many more times costly to humanity in terms of the human cost, financial cost and the continuing cost to regional stability in the Middle East.

Unless Putin decides to forcefully foist an occupation government on Ukraine, including the central regions and the West, and continue to occupy them for over a decade, then it's highly unlikely we're going to see even close to the devastation and world-spanning instability that the Iraq War caused.


Anyway Suddam had done other proacations of war as well as trying to murder a former president is an act of war and they obstructed weapons inspectors from doing their job even though that was part of their surrender agreement back in 91.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,412


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2023, 01:01:46 AM »

I can’t believe people are actually defending Bush.

You can say he was wrong to invade and was a terrible president without saying he should be put in prison for it and compared to war criminals like Putin like Mehdi Hasan is doing
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