538: Liberals Would Be Foolish To Primary Joe Manchin

[OSR stands with Israel]

What exactly does qualify for progressiveness? Certification from the Clinton Campaign?

I'll tell you disqualifies: supporting (literally, with money) far-right Indian political parties that advocate for ethnic cleansing because of your personal religious views, and attacking Obama's foreign policy from the right because it is too lax for your tastes because "I was a soldier blah blah blah".

If the bulk of establishment Democratic politicians can be rendered neoliberal shills or whatever because of positions on a handful of issues specific to their constituencies (or not), then people like Gabbard certainly are disqualified from being called "progressive" by anybody intellectually and ideologically consistent. Except that so many of the pious are anything but: their definition of "progressive" hinges solely on whether a person supported Bernie or not, or was a perceived ally or foe in that broader struggle. Actual policies don't matter; it's a cult of personality above all else.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is just another example of why "the Left" in America is a joke and a disorganized MESS and will never accomplish anything meaningful in its current incarnation. I pray for the day that that changes, I really do, considering that I am ideologically there 100%...but the broader movement in the present day is filled with low-information hypocrites, niche organizers who are so obsessed with their own little fiefdoms that they miss the bigger picture of political intersectionality, and a bunch of effete urban kids and worn-out hippies that eschew the power of institutional control.

The first one there isn't necessarily the problem (though annoying as hell and negates any legitimate sense of political/ideological superiority these people have about themselves), but the latter two are dynamics where the Right gets it and they rule because of it.

I would like to know more about this Ethnic Cleansing group which Gabbard supported because that's just a flat untrue statement used to to smear her. What exactly did she say & how did she support ethnic cleansing groups ? (No-one deserves to be called a supporter of ethnic cleansing untruly !)

Here you go.

The BJP is known as a Center Right party & has some fringe religious nutjob elements but is a democratic political party (Ethnic Cleansing seriously ??) It is infact currently in power & had actually appointed a Muslim as the President years ago. If you go to the International Elections thread, you will see the BJP is winning the Muslim vote in recent state elections. Just to add the current PM who is known as a right wing guy took strong opposition to Trump's call for barring Muslims & said Islam shouldn't be directly linked to terrorism. If you want to pick a few fringe elements of a main-stream Center-Right party & paint the entire party as nutjobs, that is wrong.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong in Tulsi's stand - The House Bill was ridiculous & was introduced more than 10 years after some Indian riots in the PM's home state, suddenly before a country wide elections where the BJP was expected to win & there was no religious riots happening then (totally irrelevant issue to bring up & meant to influence votes). The PM was acquitted by multiple courts on any role in the religious riots which took place 10-12-15 years ago !What exactly is Gabbard's fault - Asking US to not try to influence foreign elections or receiving Individual campaign donations from people who maybe are religious non-violent nutjobs or posing for picture with some person who makes a stupid religious tweet months or years later?

Then there are so many inaccuracies in the entire post like saying the PM moving India closer to the "Zionist Evil Israel" ! Well the PM also moved India closer diplomatically to both Iran & Saudi Arabia & many other Muslim nations! Also about Tulsi vs Obama about cause of extremism, I think that Poverty alone is not the key factor (Radical religious outlook is there too) but poverty helps in recruiting foot soldiers. So I don't 100% agree with Tulsi there but that makes her not a progressive ?

But the campaign here against Tulsi is flat out smear !

Supporting Indian Imperialism and right-wing policies for the subjugation of other countries, minority communities, sad, sad , sad. The government of gujurat was complicit in the riots in Gujurat,

"Summarising academic views on the subject, Martha Nussbaum said: "There is by now a broad consensus that the Gujarat violence was a form of ethnic cleansing, that in many ways it was premeditated, and that it was carried out with the complicity of the state government and officers of the law." The Modi government imposed a curfew in 26 major cities, issued shoot-at-sight orders and called for the army to patrol the streets.

The president of the state unit of the BJP expressed support for the bandh, despite such actions being illegal at the time. State officials later prevented riot victims from leaving the refugee camps, and the camps were often unable to meet the needs of those living there. Muslim victims of the riots were subject to further discrimination when the state government announced that compensation for Muslim victims would be half of that offered to Hindus.

BUT THE SUPREME COURT ACQUITTED HIM, SO HE MUST BE FINE! Yes accepting donations from right-wing discriminatory violent nut jobs is a problem.



https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/01/the-organization-that-sent-tulsi-gabbard-to-syria/514763/




Going to Assad, to shoot off talking point for the government, and meeting a leader that uses chemical warfare on it's citizens, without being president.

Going to Syria based upon anti-Semitic, dictatorial and fascist ba'thist party would be wrong yes.

modi is not part of the fringe wing of the bjp(which is bad), he is more part of the mainstream wing of the bjp, just like how Marco Rubio is not a Tea Party republican but a Mainstream Republican. Also how does shaking hands with modi equal supporting him.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Did you see Bernie's town hall in WV? The Democratic party's neoliberalism is what is killing it in WV.

"Neoliberalism" or "neoliberal" has lost all meaning at this point. These people want universal health care, yes, but once you get into the specifics of the plan, they recoil with horror. It's no coincidence that Bill Clinton and the 3rd Way-lead Democratic party easily won WV in 1992 and 1996, but then as the national party moved left, the state voted GOP at increasing margins. These people are not going to magically turn into flaming liberals if Bernie Sanders is the Democratic nominee. If the Democrats really want to win West Virginia, they must run politicians opposed to any forms of gun control, and who will at the very least pay some lip service to King Coal.  

Robert Byrd a liberal (he was one from the 1980s on ) and won easily in WV.

[OSR stands with Israel]

What exactly does qualify for progressiveness? Certification from the Clinton Campaign?

I'll tell you disqualifies: supporting (literally, with money) far-right Indian political parties that advocate for ethnic cleansing because of your personal religious views, and attacking Obama's foreign policy from the right because it is too lax for your tastes because "I was a soldier blah blah blah".

If the bulk of establishment Democratic politicians can be rendered neoliberal shills or whatever because of positions on a handful of issues specific to their constituencies (or not), then people like Gabbard certainly are disqualified from being called "progressive" by anybody intellectually and ideologically consistent. Except that so many of the pious are anything but: their definition of "progressive" hinges solely on whether a person supported Bernie or not, or was a perceived ally or foe in that broader struggle. Actual policies don't matter; it's a cult of personality above all else.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is just another example of why "the Left" in America is a joke and a disorganized MESS and will never accomplish anything meaningful in its current incarnation. I pray for the day that that changes, I really do, considering that I am ideologically there 100%...but the broader movement in the present day is filled with low-information hypocrites, niche organizers who are so obsessed with their own little fiefdoms that they miss the bigger picture of political intersectionality, and a bunch of effete urban kids and worn-out hippies that eschew the power of institutional control.

The first one there isn't necessarily the problem (though annoying as hell and negates any legitimate sense of political/ideological superiority these people have about themselves), but the latter two are dynamics where the Right gets it and they rule because of it.

I would like to know more about this Ethnic Cleansing group which Gabbard supported because that's just a flat untrue statement used to to smear her. What exactly did she say & how did she support ethnic cleansing groups ? (No-one deserves to be called a supporter of ethnic cleansing untruly !)

Here you go.

The BJP is known as a Center Right party & has some fringe religious nutjob elements but is a democratic political party (Ethnic Cleansing seriously ??) It is infact currently in power & had actually appointed a Muslim as the President years ago. If you go to the International Elections thread, you will see the BJP is winning the Muslim vote in recent state elections. Just to add the current PM who is known as a right wing guy took strong opposition to Trump's call for barring Muslims & said Islam shouldn't be directly linked to terrorism. If you want to pick a few fringe elements of a main-stream Center-Right party & paint the entire party as nutjobs, that is wrong.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong in Tulsi's stand - The House Bill was ridiculous & was introduced more than 10 years after some Indian riots in the PM's home state, suddenly before a country wide elections where the BJP was expected to win & there was no religious riots happening then (totally irrelevant issue to bring up & meant to influence votes). The PM was acquitted by multiple courts on any role in the religious riots which took place 10-12-15 years ago !What exactly is Gabbard's fault - Asking US to not try to influence foreign elections or receiving Individual campaign donations from people who maybe are religious non-violent nutjobs or posing for picture with some person who makes a stupid religious tweet months or years later?

Then there are so many inaccuracies in the entire post like saying the PM moving India closer to the "Zionist Evil Israel" ! Well the PM also moved India closer diplomatically to both Iran & Saudi Arabia & many other Muslim nations! Also about Tulsi vs Obama about cause of extremism, I think that Poverty alone is not the key factor (Radical religious outlook is there too) but poverty helps in recruiting foot soldiers. So I don't 100% agree with Tulsi there but that makes her not a progressive ?

But the campaign here against Tulsi is flat out smear !

Supporting Indian Imperialism and right-wing policies for the subjugation of other countries, minority communities, sad, sad , sad. The government of gujurat was complicit in the riots in Gujurat,

"Summarising academic views on the subject, Martha Nussbaum said: "There is by now a broad consensus that the Gujarat violence was a form of ethnic cleansing, that in many ways it was premeditated, and that it was carried out with the complicity of the state government and officers of the law." The Modi government imposed a curfew in 26 major cities, issued shoot-at-sight orders and called for the army to patrol the streets.

The president of the state unit of the BJP expressed support for the bandh, despite such actions being illegal at the time. State officials later prevented riot victims from leaving the refugee camps, and the camps were often unable to meet the needs of those living there. Muslim victims of the riots were subject to further discrimination when the state government announced that compensation for Muslim victims would be half of that offered to Hindus.

BUT THE SUPREME COURT ACQUITTED HIM, SO HE MUST BE FINE! Yes accepting donations from right-wing discriminatory violent nut jobs is a problem.



https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/01/the-organization-that-sent-tulsi-gabbard-to-syria/514763/




Going to Assad, to shoot off talking point for the government, and meeting a leader that uses chemical warfare on it's citizens, without being president.

Going to Syria based upon anti-Semitic, dictatorial and fascist ba'thist party would be wrong yes.

modi is not part of the fringe wing of the bjp(which is bad), he is more part of the mainstream wing of the bjp, just like how Marco Rubio is not a Tea Party republican but a Mainstream Republican. Also how does shaking hands with modi equal supporting him.

Gee, if tacitly approving of ethnic cleansing is 'moderate' how extreme is the fringe?

no he doesnt

[OSR stands with Israel]

What exactly does qualify for progressiveness? Certification from the Clinton Campaign?

I'll tell you disqualifies: supporting (literally, with money) far-right Indian political parties that advocate for ethnic cleansing because of your personal religious views, and attacking Obama's foreign policy from the right because it is too lax for your tastes because "I was a soldier blah blah blah".

If the bulk of establishment Democratic politicians can be rendered neoliberal shills or whatever because of positions on a handful of issues specific to their constituencies (or not), then people like Gabbard certainly are disqualified from being called "progressive" by anybody intellectually and ideologically consistent. Except that so many of the pious are anything but: their definition of "progressive" hinges solely on whether a person supported Bernie or not, or was a perceived ally or foe in that broader struggle. Actual policies don't matter; it's a cult of personality above all else.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is just another example of why "the Left" in America is a joke and a disorganized MESS and will never accomplish anything meaningful in its current incarnation. I pray for the day that that changes, I really do, considering that I am ideologically there 100%...but the broader movement in the present day is filled with low-information hypocrites, niche organizers who are so obsessed with their own little fiefdoms that they miss the bigger picture of political intersectionality, and a bunch of effete urban kids and worn-out hippies that eschew the power of institutional control.

The first one there isn't necessarily the problem (though annoying as hell and negates any legitimate sense of political/ideological superiority these people have about themselves), but the latter two are dynamics where the Right gets it and they rule because of it.

I would like to know more about this Ethnic Cleansing group which Gabbard supported because that's just a flat untrue statement used to to smear her. What exactly did she say & how did she support ethnic cleansing groups ? (No-one deserves to be called a supporter of ethnic cleansing untruly !)

Here you go.

The BJP is known as a Center Right party & has some fringe religious nutjob elements but is a democratic political party (Ethnic Cleansing seriously ??) It is infact currently in power & had actually appointed a Muslim as the President years ago. If you go to the International Elections thread, you will see the BJP is winning the Muslim vote in recent state elections. Just to add the current PM who is known as a right wing guy took strong opposition to Trump's call for barring Muslims & said Islam shouldn't be directly linked to terrorism. If you want to pick a few fringe elements of a main-stream Center-Right party & paint the entire party as nutjobs, that is wrong.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong in Tulsi's stand - The House Bill was ridiculous & was introduced more than 10 years after some Indian riots in the PM's home state, suddenly before a country wide elections where the BJP was expected to win & there was no religious riots happening then (totally irrelevant issue to bring up & meant to influence votes). The PM was acquitted by multiple courts on any role in the religious riots which took place 10-12-15 years ago !What exactly is Gabbard's fault - Asking US to not try to influence foreign elections or receiving Individual campaign donations from people who maybe are religious non-violent nutjobs or posing for picture with some person who makes a stupid religious tweet months or years later?

Then there are so many inaccuracies in the entire post like saying the PM moving India closer to the "Zionist Evil Israel" ! Well the PM also moved India closer diplomatically to both Iran & Saudi Arabia & many other Muslim nations! Also about Tulsi vs Obama about cause of extremism, I think that Poverty alone is not the key factor (Radical religious outlook is there too) but poverty helps in recruiting foot soldiers. So I don't 100% agree with Tulsi there but that makes her not a progressive ?

But the campaign here against Tulsi is flat out smear !

Supporting Indian Imperialism and right-wing policies for the subjugation of other countries, minority communities, sad, sad , sad. The government of gujurat was complicit in the riots in Gujurat,

"Summarising academic views on the subject, Martha Nussbaum said: "There is by now a broad consensus that the Gujarat violence was a form of ethnic cleansing, that in many ways it was premeditated, and that it was carried out with the complicity of the state government and officers of the law." The Modi government imposed a curfew in 26 major cities, issued shoot-at-sight orders and called for the army to patrol the streets.

The president of the state unit of the BJP expressed support for the bandh, despite such actions being illegal at the time. State officials later prevented riot victims from leaving the refugee camps, and the camps were often unable to meet the needs of those living there. Muslim victims of the riots were subject to further discrimination when the state government announced that compensation for Muslim victims would be half of that offered to Hindus.

BUT THE SUPREME COURT ACQUITTED HIM, SO HE MUST BE FINE! Yes accepting donations from right-wing discriminatory violent nut jobs is a problem.



https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/01/the-organization-that-sent-tulsi-gabbard-to-syria/514763/




Going to Assad, to shoot off talking point for the government, and meeting a leader that uses chemical warfare on it's citizens, without being president.

Going to Syria based upon anti-Semitic, dictatorial and fascist ba'thist party would be wrong yes.

modi is not part of the fringe wing of the bjp(which is bad), he is more part of the mainstream wing of the bjp, just like how Marco Rubio is not a Tea Party republican but a Mainstream Republican. Also how does shaking hands with modi equal supporting him.

Gee, if tacitly approving of ethnic cleansing is 'moderate' how extreme is the fringe?

no he doesnt

Yet he is complicit in his administration in it. Gujarat is also not the beacon of progress, and in many cases more flawed than other states.

no he isnt the courts said he had nothing to do with it and the courts in India are much more favorable to the INC then BJP. Gujarat I believe had one of the best economic record when he was CM of the state.

Anyway just cause Gabbard shook hands with modi doesnt mean she supports him.