SR 115-33: Fair Democracy Amendment (Debating)

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

There needs to be something explicitly specifying a minimum number of legislators for a legislative chamber. Personally, I feel 4, but do 3 if that is what can pass. The current language doesn't specify a minimum and could allow the South to have a legislative chamber of only 2 members, which favors the SNP even more than the old 3/2 system did.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment. This keeps Fremont's current system in compliance, and allows flexibilty for a genuine lack of interest, while keeping regions from just shutting out evident opposition by reducing the legislature's size.

I will be deferring to Yankee and LT quite a bit, since it's their region we're trying to fix and both have put tremendous effort into resolving these problems. Here's an amendment that requires all legislators to be elected at-large:           

Section 2. Amendment for electoral reform

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and executives shall not exceed four (4) months.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are 5 or more candidates on the ballot, at least 4 must be elected. Otherwise, at least 3 must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a direct democratic system.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Wulfric, I would prefer a 3-seat minimum. I don't know if a 1-2 member legislature could represent a region well.

Well, I'm not sure a one member legislature would even be legal since we use the plural 'members' here. But, okay, on this issue, your wish is my command. Amendment updated.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Addressing Concerns:

Section 2. Amendment for electoral reform

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall not exceed four (4) months.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

6. Regions shall not deny ballot access or voting rights to any person eligible under 1./2., even for regional executive/legislative contests or referendums.

7. Any regional legislature shall not amend the constitution of the region and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than a 2/3rds Affirmative vote of its membership.

8. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I withdraw my amendments.

Would the amendment sponsor here modify their amendment as follows?:

I propose this amendment.

Section 2. Amendment for electoral reform

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a region shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and election to regional office.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a subregion shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and election to the subregional senate seat.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election or referendum may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall be prescribed as either three (3) months for both the executive and the legislature or four (4) months for the executive and two (2) months for the legislature.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. If there are (6) or more candidates on the ballot, at least five (5) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

6. Any regional legislature of four (4) or fewer members shall only amend the constitution of the region by a unanimous affirmative vote of members and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than an affirmative unanimous vote of members voting, except the member to be expelled or impeached.

7. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

What exactly do Amendments to clauses 1 and 2 accomplish? Is it saying people ineligible to vote regionally according to federal region locking rules nevertheless must be allowed to be elected regionally? People who move regions are allowed to immediately be elected in that region?

I also again ask what is problematic about regional office holders having the same term length as federal senators. Is there a reason for the change beyond "own the South"?

Yes

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

No objection but I propose the following addition:

Assuming the previous amendment has been adopted, I propose some more changes that I've thought about.

Section 2. Amendment for electoral reform

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a region shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to regional office.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a subregion shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to the subregional senate seat.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election or referendum may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall be prescribed as either three (3) months for both the executive and the legislature or four (4) months for the executive and two (2) months for the legislature. Any region which combines the executive and the legislature as a parliamentary unit shall have term lengths prescribed as three (3) months. Regional executive and legislative offices may have shorter term lengths than these prescribed in this section.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. If there are (6) or more candidates on the ballot, at least five (5) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

6. Any regional legislature of four (4) or fewer members shall only proceed to amend the constitution of the region by a unanimous affirmative vote of members with ratification through a popular referendum of the eligible voters of the region and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than an affirmative unanimous vote of members voting, except the member to be expelled or impeached.

7. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

8. Voting periods in all regional elections and referendums shall be no shorter than a period of seventy-two (72) hours and no longer than 196 hours (196) hours in duration.

9. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region shall proceed to amend its constitution without a minimum of two thirds affirmative support of its membership with ratification through a popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

10. In the instance of a voting booth thread not being posted in time for the scheduled start of a regional election or referendum, the President of Atlasia shall be permitted to authorize the federal administration of a regional election or referendum through an appointed officer or themself.

11. To allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until August 25, 2023 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Withdrawing earlier version and proposing:

No objection but I propose the following addition:

Assuming the previous amendment has been adopted, I propose some more changes that I've thought about.

Section 2. Amendment for electoral reform

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a region shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to regional office.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a subregion shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to the subregional senate seat.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election or referendum may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall be prescribed as either three (3) months for both the executive and the legislature or four (4) months for the executive and two (2) months for the legislature. Any region which combines the executive and the legislature as a parliamentary unit shall have term lengths prescribed as three (3) months. Regional executive and legislative offices may have shorter term lengths than these prescribed in this section.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. If there are (6) or more candidates on the ballot, at least five (5) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

6. Any regional legislature of four (4) or fewer members shall only proceed to amend the constitution of the region by a unanimous affirmative vote of members with ratification through a popular referendum of the eligible voters of the region and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than an affirmative unanimous vote of members voting, except the member to be expelled or impeached.

7. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

8. Voting periods in all regional elections and referendums shall be no shorter than a period of seventy-two (72) hours and no longer than 196 hours (196) hours in duration.

9. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region shall proceed to amend its constitution without a minimum of two thirds affirmative support of its membership with ratification through a popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

10. In the instance of a voting booth thread not being posted in time for the scheduled start of a regional election or referendum, the President of Atlasia shall be permitted to authorize the federal administration of a regional election or referendum through an appointed officer or themself.

11. To allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until July 28, 2023 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I support the amendment

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

So citizen-proposed constitutional amendments are now banned? All amendments must go through the legislature first?

yes

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Aye

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Aye

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Nay, I think it's fair to adjust the effective date given the previous senate didn't pass this.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Cloture fails 2-9-1-6. Debate resumes.

Hearing no objection, NYE is recognized as Sponsor.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Question is on the NYE Amendment.

Nay

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Can someone point out what is being last version of the bill and what the changes are that this amendment proposes, because i have no idea.

Looks like 4 and 11 are being changed, but NYE did quote a bit of an old version. I'll post the current text after this vote.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

11. To allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until August 25, 2023 April 1, 2024 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time, and the prior elections shall be the first regional elections conducted under the new system

Also

There is a mention of "penalty" here. What penalty? Should this be clarified?

Also i'd like the right for recalls and referendums to be readded in and to be included in the final version of this bill.

It simply clarifies that the federal government will not take any legal action with respect to regional noncompliance until the listed date

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment is TIED 6-6-0-6. The VP shall break the tie.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment fails 6-7-0-6

I'll be posting another Amendment later tonight

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Since NYE quoted an old version here is the actual current text:

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.All persons registered in a region shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to regional office.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a subregion shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to the subregional senate seat.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election or referendum may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall be prescribed as either three (3) months for both the executive and the legislature or four (4) months for the executive and two (2) months for the legislature. Any region which combines the executive and the legislature as a parliamentary unit shall have term lengths prescribed as three (3) months. Regional executive and legislative offices may have shorter term lengths than these prescribed in this section.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. If there are (6) or more candidates on the ballot, at least five (5) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

6. Any regional legislature of four (4) or fewer members shall only proceed to amend the constitution of the region by a unanimous affirmative vote of members with ratification through a popular referendum of the eligible voters of the region and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than an affirmative unanimous vote of members voting, except the member to be expelled or impeached.

7. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

8. Voting periods in all regional elections and referendums shall be no shorter than a period of seventy-two (72) hours and no longer than 196 hours (196) hours in duration.

9. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region shall proceed to amend its constitution without a minimum of two thirds affirmative support of its membership with ratification through a popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

10. In the instance of a voting booth thread not being posted in time for the scheduled start of a regional election or referendum, the President of Atlasia shall be permitted to authorize the federal administration of a regional election or referendum through an appointed officer or themself.

11. To allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until July 28, 2023 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time.

12. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions, regions may create a pathway by which citizen-referred constitutional amendments can proceed without going through the legislature, provided at least five citizens of the region endorse the proposal and that such amendments are ultimately ratified by popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

AMENDMENT:

Since NYE quoted an old version here is the actual current text:

Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

1. No regional-administered election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election.All persons registered in a region shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to regional office.

2. In addition, no subregional senate election shall admit as eligible voters any person having resided in any other region within the fifty-six days prior to the commencement of the election. All persons registered in a subregion shall have a right to eligiblity for ballot access and a right to popular election to the subregional senate seat.

   1/2a. Not withstanding the prior provisions, a region may deny voting rights and/or officeholding rights to an individual that has had such rights stripped by the Supreme Court of Atlasia.  
   1/2b. Not withstanding the prior provisions, a region may deny officeholding rights to an individual that has been duly impeached and convicted from any office. The denial may last no longer than two calendar years, or the time specified in the impeachment resolution, whichever is shorter. If the impeachment resolution states that some or all officeholding rights will not be affected, the region must comply with that statement.

3. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region-wide or subregional election or referendum may deny any person the right to vote who would, if a federal election were held concurrently, be eligible to vote in such an election.

4. Term lengths for all regional legislators and regional executives shall be prescribed as either three (3) months for both the executive and the legislature or four (4) months for the executive and two (2) months for the legislature. Any region which combines the executive and the legislature as a parliamentary unit shall have term lengths prescribed as three (3) months. Regional executive and legislative offices may have shorter term lengths than these prescribed in this section. to a length of 140 days, unless a region agrees to implement shorter terms. Such an officeholder must vacate their office at the 140 day interval, even if no new officeholder has been elected. Under such circumstance, the President of Atlasia may make an emergency appointment until an election can be held.

5. Each legislative body shall be composed of only elected at-large members. If there are five (5) or more candidates on the ballot, at least four (4) must be elected. If there are (6) or more candidates on the ballot, at least five (5) must be elected. Otherwise, at least three (3) must be elected. This clause may not be suspended, unless a region adopts a universal legislature composed of all registered citizens.

     5a. Any legislative vacancy occurring more than 336 hours before the next general election must be filled by a special election, beginning within 14 days of the vacancy occurring. The governor may make a temporary appointment until the conclusion of the special election.

6. Any regional legislature of four (4) or fewer members shall only proceed to amend the constitution of the region by a unanimous affirmative vote of members with ratification through a popular referendum of the eligible voters of the region and shall not impeach or expel members of the legislature by less than an affirmative unanimous vote of members voting, except the member to be expelled or impeached.

7. No regional office shall be named President or Vice President.

8. Voting periods in all regional elections and referendums shall be no shorter than a period of seventy-two (72) hours and no longer than 196 hours (196) hours in duration.

9. Aside from the exceptions as laid out by this section, no region shall proceed to amend its constitution without a minimum of two thirds affirmative support of its membership with ratification through a popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

10. In the instance of a voting booth thread not being posted in time for the scheduled start of a regional election or referendum, the President of Atlasia shall be permitted to authorize the federal administration of a regional election or referendum through an appointed officer or themself.

11. To allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until July 28, 2023 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time.

1211. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions, regions may create a pathway by which citizen-referred constitutional amendments can proceed without going through the legislature, provided at least five citizens of the region endorse the proposal and that such amendments are ultimately ratified by popular referendum by eligible voters of the region.

12. Beginning by November 1, 2023, regions must provide a method wherein citizens can motion to recall officials and propose statutes to be adopted by referendum. Recalls shall require the signatures of at least 7 citizens but no more than 12. Referendums shall either require legislative approval by either a simple majority or a 2/3 majority, the signatures of at least 7 citizens but no more than 12, or both.

13. Except as stated in the prior clause, to allow time for regions to update their procedures and avoid suddenly unstaffing governments, Regions will have until October 27, 2023 to bring themselves into compliance without penalty, and any existing legislators and executives may serve until that time.

14. Regions must achieve compliance with all prior provisions by holding any necessary elections or referendums beginning on October 20th at Midnight Eastern Time, and concluding in accordance with clause 8, unless they implement a plan to achieve compliance at an earlier time, following clause 8 in doing so.

This amendment provides two major concessions from our side - term lengths of around 4 months, and not requiring the South to schedule anything until October.

It also ensures that regions are not forced to give extra rights to those impeached or judged incompetent by SCOA, ensures vacancies are handled in a timely manner, modifies section 8 to ensure mostly uniform election time lengths, and ensures the enaction/restoration of recalls and citizen statute referendums.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Hearing no objection, the amendment is adopted.

Motion for a final vote.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The question is on the motion for a final vote.

Aye

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Cloture is INVOKED 11-5-0-2. A final vote is beginning.

AYE

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

This has the votes to pass this stage and will be closed in 24 hours.